Collapsable or Straight Stick?

[Samuelx]

If you can get a group buy together, Peacekeeper may be able to help you out on price - shoot them an email or give them a call...

[micro911]

When I am in uniform, I still carry good old PR-24. Solid Aluminum body with the side handle. Nothing can beat that in my opinion.

[The Master-Blaster]

Train with both,including grappling and controlling tecniques,dont just learn the stick well,but what the rest of your body is doing.Control the mind=Control the body=Control the stick=Control the lawbreaker.Train both,carry both,release the one you know you can use best.You'll get that calm feeling with the right one you are holding,you'll doubt yourself and the weapon and swing it around listlessly with the secondary stick.

[Petro6golf]

Train with both,including grappling and controlling tecniques,dont just learn the stick well,but what the rest of your body is doing.Control the mind=Control the body=Control the stick=Control the lawbreaker.Train both,carry both,release the one you know you can use best.You'll get that calm feeling with the right one you are holding,you'll doubt yourself and the weapon and swing it around listlessly with the secondary stick.

Good point. Im going to get a good quality cocobolo straight baton and use that. I like my RCB but it doesnt beat a good 29" er

[Samuelx]

IMO, there isn't "THAT" much difference in performance between a same length RCB and straight stick. There would be more difference found in/gained by improving one's own abilities/proficiency.

Give someone like for example Eric Knaus (founding Dog Brothers member "Top Dog") a lightweight rattan stick or a cheapy airweight no-name brand expandable and he will Still be able to kick some serious ash!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WoMgotN90I

I've been training in FMA since 88 - highly recommend it.

[The Master-Blaster]

Petro,glad i could help.
Samuelx,alot of what i say is specifically from martial arts,i even dabbled in Filipino arts,and relative interchangeability of principles,be they thought patterns or hand movements do come off as similar,just the particulars differ.Let me know if you ever wanna get together sometime,i could use a refresher course and i have armed and unarmed stuff of my own for weeks.Both can benefit from crosstraining partners.To oversimplify it,because to me it is ALL just training...firearms,physical training,research when you are too sore from everything else,hell cooking and Asian calligraphy to me are also serious,110% effort endeavors.

[Samuelx]

Hey MB, I think it would be great to train together! Calligraphy and cooking too? You're a renaissance man! PM me with your work email and I'll email you from mine...

[epilepticninja]

Most agencies I know of including me carry both a collapsable and a straight stick. Collapsable is carried on the belt and always there when something goes bad, the straight stick is kept in the car and I only pull it out on times when I think I am going to need it i.e. a bar fight etc. So I if your agency allows I would carry both

I carried a straight stick and used to leave it in the car all the time. Then the one time I really needed it, it was sitting jammed into the seat where I normally put it at. After that incident, my stick went with me everywhere. Vehicle stops, cold calls, taking code, didn't matter. When the agency I worked for started adopting the ASP, I stuck with my stick. That piece of wood saved my *** more than once.

[1CavScout]

straight stick the asp isnt worth **** in a bar fight with some big dudes

Yep, I deployed my ASP against a big Samoan guy that was high on PCP. The ASP did not have enough weight behind it to do any real damage. I switched to a Winchester after that incident, but always carried a straight stick in the car.

[Samuelx]

Big Samoan guy high on PCP??? You could probably hit him with a TRUCK and he wouldn't feel it...

[1CavScout]

Big Samoan guy high on PCP??? You could probably hit him with a TRUCK and he wouldn't feel it...

yeah, it was pretty crazy. The guy was naked, sweaty and 5150. My ASP was just flexing when I was striking him. Not much effect at all. We eventually took a leg out and got enough people on top of him to get him under control.

[Dr.Lou]

Straight stick!

[Samuelx]

yeah, it was pretty crazy. The guy was naked, sweaty and 5150. My ASP was just flexing when I was striking him. Not much effect at all. We eventually took a leg out and got enough people on top of him to get him under control.

Great job!

[TrailerparkTrash]

"There's nothing like a nice piece of hickory."

- The Preacher

Well said!



The ASP and variants suck!!! Anyone who says they are good as impact weapons, I'd challenge to say they never used one on a tough and assaultive suspect. Those ASPs are more of a "disco" baton because you gotta fling it out all silly and such, like youre on the dance floor. A regular PR-24 is better and a straight stick is primo. Size and mass (don't get disgusting ) really matter when striking someone with an impact weapon.

I've always thought that the lighter and thinner ASP variants force the user to strike multiple times, whereas the heavier straight sticks "may" cause the same if not more damage with few strikes to a suspect. In today's litigious society, fewer impacts on a suspect just looks better than multiple strikes. I think the light weight ASP in more times than not, forces the user to strike more often than a heavier straight stick. This is just my opinion and not based on any facts or studies.

Now, acknowledging that im about to compare apples to moon rocks, I will say that swinging the heavier baseball bat at a fast pitch will knock the ball out of the park (usually). Wheras swinging an ASP at a fast pitch ball would probably just break the ASP 90% of the time. There's just no mass behind the swing of an ASP.

[Samuelx]

TPT, you're right, size matters.

Basic physics says Force = mass x acceleration and Kinetic Energy = 1/2 x mass x velocity(squared)

How much impact you can get will depend on Both how heavy your baton is and how quickly/fast you can swing it. If really light, you can swing fast but won't have much effect - might sting a little bit (which is why I find the manufacturers marketing "air weight" type batons absolutely ridiculous); if really heavy, you won't be able to swing it very fast, it will tend to "push" rather than "pop", and you won't be able to easily change direction or deliver fast follow up strikes. How quickly you can swing it or how hard you can hit with it will also depend on things like strength, dexterity, body mechanics, etc. And effectiveness also can depend on impacted area(s) as well. The "ideal" baton is going to be different for different people - length, weight, grip diameter, materials, design, etc.

FWIW, a little while ago, I submitted a proposal to change our standard issue impact weapon from the side handle baton to a straight baton (still keeping the side handle as optional) and suggested an approved range of specs so that everyone would not be locked in to a one size fits all baton. Haven't heard anything back so far.