LAPD Off-Duty Carry

[TIMEREGAINED]

Is it true that LAPD cannot carry on or off duty any firearm that is not on the approved Glock/S&W/Beretta list?

In some sense wouldn't this render any firearm purchased other than these three manufacturers useless given that even while possessing a CCW and being encouraged to carry off-duty police officers wouldn't be allow to carry another brand firearm?

[CALREB]

I would think that they would have to have some restrictions to insure that the officers are trained/qualified with the weapons they carry on/off duty.

[TIMEREGAINED]

I would think that they would have to have some restrictions to insure that the officers are trained/qualified with the weapons they carry on/off duty.

If they get qualified with a Glock what would prevent them from carrying an HK, likewise a S&W and a SIG.

This kind of control would render their CCW pretty much useless in the freedom of what they feel comfortable to carry when off-duty.

[Ron-Solo]

Many departments have certain firearms that are authorized for off duty carry. LASD certainly does. With LASD, you must take a course on each firearm you wish to carry, showing proficiency with each one. A Glock is not a Sig or HK.

Peace Officers under 830.1, 830.2, and several other sections do not have a CCW, they are merely exempt under the law from needing one to carry. Under the law, an off duty peace officer could carry any firearm and be within the law.

They would however, be in violation of department policy and subject to disciplinary action. If they were in an off duty shooting with an unauthorized firearm or ammunition, the city/county would kick them to the curb in a civil suit because they didn't follow policy.

Since there are many good firearms and ammunition authorized by most departments, what is the point of violating policy?

Training and qualifications are very important because of the liability the department is taking on.

[P5Ret]

It is probably more about LIABILITY for the department than anything else. The department more than likely will have to assume liability for off duty shootings, as they are the training agency. We had a policy that it had to be an approved firearm (approval was pretty much anything) and you had to qualify every 6 months. There are probably 2 lists of approved handguns one for duty and one off duty.

[TIMEREGAINED]

Many departments have certain firearms that are authorized for off duty carry. LASD certainly does. With LASD, you must take a course on each firearm you wish to carry, showing proficiency with each one. A Glock is not a Sig or HK.

Peace Officers under 830.1, 830.2, and several other sections do not have a CCW, hey are merely exempt under the law from needing one to carry. Under the law, an off duty peace officer could carry any firearm and be within the law. They would be in violation of department policy and subject to disciplinary action. If they were in an off duty shooting with an unauthorized firearm o ammunition, the city/county would kick them to the curb in a civil suit because they didn't follow policy.

Since there are many good firearms and ammunition authorized by most departments, what is the point of violating policy?

Training and qualifications are very important because of the liability the department is taking on.

Familiarity and expertise. In the condition that one is most familiar with a firearm that they trained with for years or that they have most confidence in, the officer would thereby be limited to the line of: Glock, Beretta, and S&W.

Now, I am not trying to bring in anything out of the ordinary into this open forum (Magnum 44, DE 5.0) but merely a modern firearm that would be used by LE wherever possible: HK P2000, HK P30, SIG P226, SIG P220, etc. Your standard modern firearm, that is.

Firearms very much boil down to trigger familiarity and if you've shot 30,000+ rounds through a SIG but are assigned a Glock I see no point why you cannot adopt the SIG you're already familiar with.

If it merely requires some form of qualification then doesn't push the envelope so long as it's not some radical idea being presented to the department for wanting to go 'other' than the choice of three above-mentioned.

A Glock is not a Sig or HK.

A Glock can certainly resemble an HK in LEM Variant. No decocker, no slide safety.

[TIMEREGAINED]

We had a policy that it had to be an approved firearm (approval was pretty much anything) and you had to qualify every 6 months...

This sounds about right given that the occupation requires you to spend as much time with a firearm as most people do with a computer at work.

[TripleThreat]

A local department that have some familiarity with, lets officers qualify with your duty weapon + and no more than two other weapons may be carried as part of their off-duty CCW. I'm pretty sure that just about any brand or caliber would qualifie.

[Ron-Solo]

Familiarity and expertise. In the condition that one is most familiar with a firearm that they trained with for years or that they have most confidence in, the officer would thereby be limited to the line of: Glock, Beretta, and S&W.

LASD does not authorize any Glock, mainly because the brass doesn't like the act that you have to pull the trigger before disassembly. The Beretta 92f is still the department issue gun. There are several S&W models that are approved, including the M&P 9.

Now, I am not trying to bring in anything out of the ordinary into this open forum (Magnum 44, DE 5.0) but merely a modern firearm that would be used by LE wherever possible: HK P2000, HK P30, SIG P226, SIG P220, etc. Your standard modern firearm, that is.

The HK P2000, SIG P220, P226 & P229 are all approved by LASD.

Firearms very much boil down to trigger familiarity and if you've shot 30,000+ rounds through a SIG but are assigned a Glock I see no point why you cannot adopt the SIG you're already familiar with.

It is about liability. He department needs to be able to show you were trained with that specific platform meeting minimum standards in the event of a civil suit. A Glock is distinctly different from a SIG.

A qualification on a Smith M&P 9 also allows you to carry a 9c. (The .40, .357 Sig, and .45acp are not authorized.). A separate qualification is required for a double action Smith sub as a 59 series or a 669 pistol.

Qualification on a Sig P series covers all of the ones authorized. A qualification on an HK USP does not cover a P2000, since the function is different.



If it merely requires some form of qualification then doesn't push the envelope so long as it's not some radical idea being presented to the department for wanting to go 'other' than the choice of three above-mentioned.

I am a very experienced shooter, and can easily transition from one to the other, but even with 32 years on I learned new stuff on the last course I took before I retired. The off duty course was four hours and the on duty course was 8 hours. Almost all of that was spent shooting different drills.

A Glock can certainly resemble an HK in LEM Variant. No decocker, no slide safety.

I own a Glock 19 and and HK P2000 with a LEM v2 trigger. They are, in my opinion, nothing similar. A Smith M&P and a Glock 19 is more similar, but still have differences. The Beretta 92f and a D/A Smith function a lot alike, which is why my off duty/backup gun was a Smith 669 because it functioned a lot like my duty 92f.

I currently own Beretta 92f x2, Smith 669, Smith M&P 9, 9c, and 45, Ruger LCP, Ruger LC9, Glock 19 x2, and HK P2000. This does not include the revolvers I own. I stay profficient with all, but for LEOSA I only have to qualify once a year on a pistol and revolver of my choice to be able to carry them. Since I'm retired, I can choose any handgun I want, because the department doesn't assume any liability if I get in a shooting. I still carry the department authorized ammo in my 9's and .45's because in addition to being able to buy it at a decent price thru the department, it is great ammo. (Winchester T Series for 9 and .45, Speer Gold Dot for .38). I just wish I could buy more than 100 RDS of each caliber per year so I could practice more.

[tyrist]

Is it true that LAPD cannot carry on or off duty any firearm that is not on the approved Glock/S&W/Beretta list?/ruger lcp/kimber/colt/Springfield Armory

In some sense wouldn't this render any firearm purchased other than these three manufacturers useless given that even while possessing a CCW and being encouraged to carry off-duty police officers wouldn't be allow to carry another brand firearm?

First your list needs updating.

Per state law you can carry whatever you want but if you legally use a non approved handgun, use non approved ammunition, and the pistol isn't registered with the armory you can expect to get a sternly worded letter reminding you of department policy.

[Heiko]

The most restrictive policy I know of is Border Patrol. Their policy is that they can only carry their duty weapon (HK P2000) off duty. That's it. If you're BP and want to carry off duty, you're lugging the P2000.

That's their policy. I may or may not know BP guys who carry other smaller guns while off duty. They know it's outside of policy but not illegal.

[Tacobandit]

Not only does it have to be on the list but u also have to bring it into the lapd armorer who inspects it and puts it on your firearm card. You can not alter your firearm in any way either, not even adding grips. Armorer has to do it

[Ron-Solo]

Not only does it have to be on the list but u also have to bring it into the lapd armorer who inspects it and puts it on your firearm card. You can not alter your firearm in any way either, not even adding grips. Armorer has to do it

LASD isn't that restrictive. New guns can be carried as soon as you complete the required training. Used guns must be inspected by the armorer.

[RileyBean]

Not only does it have to be on the list but u also have to bring it into the lapd armorer who inspects it and puts it on your firearm card. You can not alter your firearm in any way either, not even adding grips. Armorer has to do it

That's how my agency did it too - but in certain circumstances you could have a different CCW gun specifically approved.

[TrailerparkTrash]

LASD is dropping the Beretta 92FS and SLOOOOWLY issuing full size M&P's. Several academy classes have been issued the M&P's now. The rest of the dept will slowly transition by turning in their Berettas or offering the deps to purchase them for personal ownership. I understand they're issuing them with five 17 round magazines and a laser/light combo + holster.