Ammo Selection

[Notorious]

You got coyotes stoned?

[center_x]

You got coyotes stoned?

Ha, yes, yes I did. Should I mention that on a PHS?? Lol

Stoned = dead in tracks!!!

[jerkyg]

shot too many cyotes...up here...dime a dozen.

just got 1/2 inch sheet rock. had some divorce and custody stuff to take care of...hopefully i can do the test today or tomorrow.

like i said...it will be #8 SHOT...will put three sheets approx. 5 inches apart. will take pics of the results.

if you have read the threads against me...please ignore them...i am simply on here to educate..and be educated...

this will be fun...

stay safe...

[TrailerparkTrash]

To the OP I would have to disagree with your friend in AZ about 9mm overpenetrating....But I do agree with with the carrying of a 45 acp. I carried a 1911 for many years.

How many folks have been hit (shot) due to a round going through the torso of a suspect and hitting an innocent person? I'm sure its happened, but it has to be rare.

Okay, I'm going to throw a wrench into this topic and give some "food for thought." The L.A. Sheriff's department did a training video several years ago. They compared the duty issued Winchester HP 147 gr "Ranger" load vs. Federal 55gr Soft Point .223 ammo.

The test showed repeatedly that the 9mm 147gr Winchester shot out of a Beretta 92F series weapon, actually OVER PENETRATED the traditional stucko wall of a southern california traditionally built house.

Next, they showed how the Federal .223 SP bullet DID NOT over penetrate the same type of contstructed stucko wall......

In fact, at the time the video was made, the department already had approximately 15 or more real shootings into human verman with that 55gr SP bullet, out of an AR-15 rifle(s). Not one single .223 SP bullet ever exited the human torsos on those suspects on those shootings. Not one. Basically, the bullet was so light and fast that it disintigrated upon hitting the human body or for that matter, the stucko wall. The bullets literally vaporized within the human scum that took those rounds. Remember, a SP or HP bullet performs much differently than a FMJ bullet, especially from a rifle platform.

Now, regarding the department's 9mm 147gr HP bullet, the LASD has had some instances where the bullet actually did exit the suspect(s) and even on a rarer occassion, hit a bystander. Here, the typical 9mm handgun bullet is almost 3 times heavier than the .223 bullet and also over twice as slow in velocity. Out of a handgun, no bullet can really disintigrate with such tremendous energy as a light weight fast flying rifle bullet.

Finally, there have been other tests done on dry wall with bird shot and a 12ga shotgun. If you get a chance to do your own tests with the bird shot, you'll notice one unique anomaly. With the bird shot at realatively close distances like in one's hallway of their house, the entire load of bird shot acts like a slug and punches a big hole through the drywall!!!! So at close distances, bird shot acts like a slug until it travels a bit and spreads it's pattern. Not good if your kid is sleeping in a bed on the other side of that wall I'd think.

Bottom line, what is perceived as one line of thinking in ammo selection, may actually be the incorrect decision for the job at hand.

[Notorious]

That was an eye opening video and made people move away from the "heavy" 9mm 147 grain to the lighter, faster +P chamberings.

The best video still is the one that shows how ammo penetrated everyday objects on the street and what we can use for cover when being shot at. Then it shows cinderblock being disintegrated by rifle ammo and the dust being thrown off on the backside from rifle hits. I love the comment that if you can fit behind a fire hydrant, it is the best cover as it will stop almost anything.

[retired]

That was an eye opening video and made people move away from the "heavy" 9mm 147 grain to the lighter, faster +P chamberings.

The best video still is the one that shows how ammo penetrated everyday objects on the street and what we can use for cover when being shot at. Then it shows cinderblock being disintegrated by rifle ammo and the dust being thrown off on the backside from rifle hits. I love the comment that if you can fit behind a fire hydrant, it is the best cover as it will stop almost anything.

I haven't seen the video since I'm long retired, but as far as I know, the dept. still uses the Winchester Ranger 9mm 147gr. round. I bought some last year when I went to the BC range to requalify for the LEOSA national ccw.

Can any of the active LASD leo members here advise as to whether they have switched to the 127gr. + round.

[Notorious]

My county went to the 127 +P+ chambering and we all piggybacked on it.