Ammo Selection

[Mike357]

Hey all,

I have a question for all ca leo's. Its not if one caliber is better than another, ie 9mm vs. 45acp, or 40cal vs 9mm etc. My question is about expansion in hollow points any caliber 9mm, 45acp, 40cal etc. I want to ask specifically about 9mm, since I can buy it much cheaper than other calibers and practice more often with that caliber. I have a friend in AZ who works in corrections, and would not recommend anything smaller than 40cal and personally uses 45acp. He says that 9mm can over penetrate and possibly hit an unintended target. Any thoughts would e helpful, thank you.

[ironcross]

Here is the ballistic data from my Sheriff's Department, for the .40S&W from a G22.

http://le.atk.com/pdf/San.pdf

[Notorious]

That's just outdated or incorrect information.

We use the RA9T Winchester Ranger +P+ 9mm 127 grain ammo and it is a powerful round which will not fail you if you do your job. It expands quite reliably as any other Ranger design.

That being said, a pistol round is a weak choice at best for close personal protection only. Any pistol round can fail, including the 40 and 45. Hardball ammo in any caliber can overpenetrate. JHP in any caliber can overpenetrate if you shoot through barriers that stuff up the cavity and make it act like a hardball.

45 can overpenetrate like anything else. Even if you use non+P at 850fps or so, it can still go through a person just like a 9mm at 1,150fps.

With modern ammo, there is no real discernable difference in the handgun calibers in real world performance. If overpenetration is a concern, use frangible ammo. That's your only real guarantee.

[Samuelx]

Hey all,

I have a question for all ca leo's. Its not if one caliber is better than another, ie 9mm vs. 45acp, or 40cal vs 9mm etc. My question is about expansion in hollow points any caliber 9mm, 45acp, 40cal etc. I want to ask specifically about 9mm, since I can buy it much cheaper than other calibers and practice more often with that caliber. I have a friend in AZ who works in corrections, and would not recommend anything smaller than 40cal and personally uses 45acp. He says that 9mm can over penetrate and possibly hit an unintended target. Any thoughts would e helpful, thank you.

If you go with any of the calibers you mentioned above, you're gonna have to change your screen name...

[Notorious]

Unless he gets a 40 then converts it to 357sig.

[ironcross]

That's just outdated or incorrect information.

We use the RA9T Winchester Ranger +P+ 9mm 127 grain ammo and it is a powerful round which will not fail you if you do your job. It expands quite reliably as any other Ranger design.

That being said, a pistol round is a weak choice at best for close personal protection only. Any pistol round can fail, including the 40 and 45. Hardball ammo in any caliber can over penetrate. JHP in any caliber can over penetrate if you shoot through barriers that stuff up the cavity and make it act like a hardball.

45 can over penetrate like anything else. Even if you use non+P at 850fps or so, it can still go through a person just like a 9mm at 1,150fps.

With modern ammo, there is no real discernible difference in the handgun calibers in real world performance. If over penetration is a concern, use frangible ammo. That's your only real guarantee.

While that may be true. Only information on the books for my County SD. Also is so true about over penetration.

Unless he gets a 40 then converts it to 357sig.

LOL!

[Notorious]

Sorry, I was referring to his buddy saying that 9mm presents an over penetration problem while his trusty 45 wouldn't. That is just flat out incorrect.

[ironcross]

Sorry, I was referring to his buddy saying that 9mm presents an over penetration problem while his trusty 45 wouldn't. That is just flat out incorrect.

Ah, 10-4, Code 4.

[jerkyg]

Just find a round that has good expansion...and hit your target. Double tap...center chest...two times...or, chest and head. I have been shooting since I was 5 yrs old...as my kids have also.

Most coppers are the worst shots...every night before going onto the streets...I would go to the range (yes, we had a range in the basement...free rounds...how can you say no???) And I would have other coppers ask me why I would do that? Huh?

Read too many times..."Police shoot suspect 45 times...shot in leg and buttocks"....huh?

Stay safe...

[TrailerparkTrash]

That's just outdated or incorrect information.

We use the RA9T Winchester Ranger +P+ 9mm 127 grain ammo and it is a powerful round which will not fail you if you do your job. It expands quite reliably as any other Ranger design.

That being said, a pistol round is a weak choice at best for close personal protection only. Any pistol round can fail, including the 40 and 45. Hardball ammo in any caliber can overpenetrate. JHP in any caliber can overpenetrate if you shoot through barriers that stuff up the cavity and make it act like a hardball.

45 can overpenetrate like anything else. Even if you use non+P at 850fps or so, it can still go through a person just like a 9mm at 1,150fps.

With modern ammo, there is no real discernable difference in the handgun calibers in real world performance. If overpenetration is a concern, use frangible ammo. That's your only real guarantee.

+1 what Notorious said.

...especially about the part that all the "Ranger" loadings from Winchester are EXTREMELY reliable especially in their 9mm line up! Very good proven performers on human scum that needed to be shot by the police.

[jerkyg]

Bottom line...you have an intruder in your home and you shoot at him/her...and miss...or, even if you dont...the round could very well travel through many walls. Do you have kids, wife, grandma and grandpa??

That is why...you should instead have a tactical shotgun..20" barrell and pistol grip. This would lesson the chance of the bad guy grabbing your weapon as you make corners. Load it up with number 8 shot...at close range will still be a man stopper. And not be able to penetrate many walls.

Stay safe...

[Notorious]

Bottom line...you have an intruder in your home and you shoot at him/her...and miss...or, even if you dont...the round could very well travel through many walls. Do you have kids, wife, grandma and grandpa??

That is why...you should instead have a tactical shotgun..20" barrell and pistol grip. This would lesson the chance of the bad guy grabbing your weapon as you make corners. Load it up with number 8 shot...at close range will still be a man stopper. And not be able to penetrate many walls.

Stay safe...

You serious? Why not go with an 18" instead and load it with #6 shot?

[jerkyg]

as i recall..the legal length is 16 inches in CA...but, i remember that 20" is the limit on most tactical shotguns. if i am wrong...then go with the 18 inch. but with 6 shot? at 6 to 8 feet...the usual limit of a shoot out...i actualy believe it is less than that...why would one go for a larger shot size? especially because my point was that the smaller shot will not go through too many walls. at 6 feet...the bad buy will die with 8 shot. why take the chance of getting more penetration in your own home with your kids? that is the point...unless, you live alone and far away from your neighbors. and why is this an issue? i made an important point...cant we talk about that instead? 18 inch....6 shot? is that really germaine to this point???

stay safe...

You serious? Why not go with an 18" instead and load it with #6 shot?

[center_x]

Not to change topic, but please correct if im wrong, shotgun barrels have to be 18", but maybe different for LE. Rifle barrels is the 16" rule.

[Notorious]

as i recall..the legal length is 16 inches in CA...but, i remember that 20" is the limit on most tactical shotguns. if i am wrong...then go with the 18 inch. but with 6 shot? at 6 to 8 feet...the usual limit of a shoot out...i actualy believe it is less than that...why would one go for a larger shot size? especially because my point was that the smaller shot will not go through too many walls. at 6 feet...the bad buy will die with 8 shot. why take the chance of getting more penetration in your own home with your kids? that is the point...unless, you live alone and far away from your neighbors. and why is this an issue? i made an important point...cant we talk about that instead? 18 inch....6 shot? is that really germaine to this point???

stay safe...

I get the gist of your post, but if you say manueverability and retention are key, then why give up 2 more inches to bang against a wall or let the bad guy grab onto as you break the threshhold?

In CA (and federal law), shotgun barrels have to be 18" while rifle barrels have to be 16". The 20" barrel tactical shotgun is milspec derived from the M590, IIRC, and not necessarily a civilian equivalent. Police Rem870 are all 18.5" barreled and most Mossberg M500 Persuaders are 18.5" barreled.

I just said 6 shot because it is still pretty small and can be stopped by drywall but makes more of a dent on a human target than the 8-1/2 shot which is little more than a steel bb that you would use in an airgun.