Anti LEO

[43Duc]

I'll be keeping mine in the best way possible.... the ink won't even be dry on my retirement papers before the U-haul will be in the driveway. I can't wait to get out of here.

[jdberger]

As far as all the feelings of resentment, I do agree that it does suck that we can do things you guys can't. But how is that the fault of the LEO's? I won't get into all the reasons why it is allowed, but I will say just remember who is allowing it. LEGISLATURES.

Not to thread jack (too much) - but what is a reason that an LEO can purchase a non-rostered handgun and standard capacity magazine when non-LEOs are prohibited?

I'm not assigning blame - I understand who writes and enacts the laws - I'm simply curious.

One reason why it's allowed.

[Falconis]

What is the one reason? (From your point of view?)

I said it before, and I'll say it again, the roster handgun farce is just that. A farce. So is the magazine laws. But this time legislatures were smart enough to exclude the one group of people that would counter their argument the most about need. I am NOT saying need is an argument. Just what their biggest obstacle would have been and they sidestepped it.

To answer the general question, yeah I think there is a need due to the nature of the job. Does that make it right in the grand scheme of things, no. But this also brings up 2 points.

If you were given the option to buy something because, let's say you lived on block XYZ, would you not take advantage of it? I know I would and do. So all this arguing over why can you guys do things and I can't seems a little hypocritical from my point of view. People who do whine about such things do it because they can take the high road on this occasion. I also don't see anyone who has a pre banned RAW giving theirs up to stand in solidarity with those who do not.

Second of all, do you honestly think excluding law enforcement and berating them for being able to side step the law does any good? I joined this group thinking CGN is doing some good stuff for the community and I also saw myself becoming a civilian again one day. Slowly I see some members here that simply just want to lash out at authority in whatever form it takes.

But to go back a little. Can anyone here say that Police Officers should NOT be allowed to buy AR's or non rostered guns just because you can't. To me that says, well just cause I can't use my fingers, I'll chop off my whole arm so you can't use the wrist. Another version of cut off the nose to spite your face cliche. On another layer, can anyone honestly say that there is no need what so ever. Those of you willing to say that even there is a need, are you willing to send police officers out there underequipped? Screw the argument of well this gun will work fine so you should just use that and that alone till the playing field is completely equal. Most departments with a good training staff choose firearms for particular reasons. The fact that we choose those for the reasons too numerous to list does not mean we agree with the laws. Even if I weren't a cop, I wouldnt bring up an argument of let's send our police officers out there with equipment that is minimally acceptable.

LAPD had that policy for years and look what happened back in 1997( ? ) was it?

At the end of it, I get anti LEO sentiment. I understand why it's out there and why people feel the way they do. Justified or not. Here, it's either barely hidden in their posts or they sometimes just outright say it. As far as what's to be done about it, ehhh I figure not much. Aragorn was apparently modded for it, but he's still here.

The OP was right though no matter how you slice and dice it. There does seem to be a lot of the us vs. them attitude and I don't think it's from our side. Probably cause we are in the minority here.

But back to JDBerger, wanna elaborate a little?

[BigDogatPlay]

As far as LEOs losing their AWs after retirement, I don't know how that can happen, as LEO's don't truly retire, they're just "reserve" or something like that. A retired LEO can be called on in time of emergency. (again, this is according to my father in law, so maybe that's just down here in SD)

Yeah, actually they do retire. And after three years out of the job the POST certificates are no longer valid. To go back to work a retiree of more than three years would have to go through a re-certification course. When I had to re-certify in 1999, as I'd been out of the business for a few years doing other things, there was a retired sheriff's lieutenant who'd landed a job as a small town COP. He'd been retired about five years and even though he was going to be a chief, he had to re-certify.

[Jonathan Doe]

Not to thread jack (too much) - but what is a reason that an LEO can purchase a non-rostered handgun and standard capacity magazine when non-LEOs are prohibited?

I'm not assigning blame - I understand who writes and enacts the laws - I'm simply curious.

One reason why it's allowed.

I heard that the law makers put LEO exemptions in the clause to pass the law, not because they like LEOs or LEOs are better than non-LEOs. And I believe it. They are sneaky, whether they are for the state or federal level. They will do anything to pass a law.

[BigDogatPlay]

They will do anything to pass a law.

And there you go..... carving out little exemptions and exceptions is how things quite often get passed through the legislative process.

After all, the roster got passed into law in part because of the single action revolver exemption. The stories on that are well known in CGN circles.

[Falconis]

I heard that the law makers put LEO exemptions in the clause to pass the law, not because they like LEOs or LEOs are better than non-LEOs. And I believe it. They are sneaky, whether they are for the state or federal level. They will do anything to pass a law.

They do NOT like LEO's. I have a feeling they consider us something between something they stepped on and well .... something else they stepped on. They just can't politically come out and say they hate us. Not saying all, just the ones I've ran across. On both sides of the aisle.

[East County]

Well I see I wasn't the only one who noticed the Anti Po Po feeling around here. Like I said, I am new to Calguns.net but I can understand how folks may feel. Not that many years ago people would laugh at public employees saying how much better you could do in the private sector, now they are after our retirement truly knowing very little about how PERS really works, but after doing this job for the past 25 years I'm starting to understand how things work....... not! I still enjoy reading all the great info on this site, even if most do not care for our jobs.

[jdberger]

Falconis, please excuse me if I'm brief- I'm on a phone and it's not easy to type.

First, I was looking for a reason. I don't have one.

Second, I'm pretty sure that most departments issue pistols and magazines to their officers, which negates any reason for them to purchase their own for work.

Third, yes, I can say that that citizens in good standing should be treated equally under law. Lawyers shouldn't have rights not afforded to garbagemen. Dockworkers don't get privileges not afforded to accountants. It's not how our society works.

This isn't cutting of your arm because you can't use your fingers. LEOs are free to use AWs and non-rostered guns on duty. They're not being handicapped in any way.

4) Law enforcement isnt being singled out. Quite the opposite. They're being treated like everyone else. I also don't see anyone being "berated".

To summarize, I think that just about everyonebhere wants our cops well equipped. That includes access to a patrol rifle, whether it's an AR, AK, m14, whatever. What sticks in peoples craw is the pass to purchase non-rostered guns that aren't ( and won't) be used for duty simply because they are LEOs. The retention of private property (LEO purchased AWs) is a similar issue. At the very least, Departments should purchase them back from the LEO for retail.

[anthonyca]

Well I see I wasn't the only one who noticed the Anti Po Po feeling around here. Like I said, I am new to Calguns.net but I can understand how folks may feel. Not that many years ago people would laugh at public employees saying how much better you could do in the private sector, now they are after our retirement truly knowing very little about how PERS really works, but after doing this job for the past 25 years I'm starting to understand how things work....... not! I still enjoy reading all the great info on this site, even if most do not care for our jobs.

I don't see it that way. Most of the LEO "bashing" is calling out a specific LEO or incident. The vast majority of calguns LEOs seem to be great guys and I think most people here feel that way also. People just get too defensive and take it as bashing ALL LEOs when someone is talking about a specific story.

Now politician bashing......... For them its the other way around, a few good ones and many bad ones who hate the constitution or never bothered to read what they swore to uphold.

[East County]

I'm all in favor of bashing the politicians!

No problem talking about a bad encounter with an officer, I know it happens. I should tell you about all the "bad" encounters I've had with dirtbags, but that is my job right? Of course most people only ever encounter a law enforcement officer during a "bad" situation. The victim: You're house was just burglarized, your car stolen, your dog kicked by the neighbor and there is the cop when you're already pissed at the world so that cop standing in front of you is now your focus and he's not solving your issues fast enough. Or the Suspect: of course he hates the cop that's taking his freedom away. Of course we knew this going into the job and we get paid to do it. I've been doing this job for the past 25 years and fully understand how these things work and I'm ok with it. In fact last year on the way to the Police / Fire games I got jacked up at a Border Patrol checkpoint. They had my Trap shotgun laying on the asphalt, I was pretty much an A-Hole myself. So it looks like we all are very much a like.

Although I still don't get the OC crowd, but its ok to agree to disagree.

[Falconis]

@JD No worries. I can understand multi tasking.

Departments do issue 1 handgun and 3 magazines. But like all toolsets, a hammer can't do everything. Sometimes, I need a smaller hammer, or a screw driver. And these days, departments won't go much beyond what they need to. Mine doesnt. Which is why I was eternally grateful when CGF and the other 2A orgs got the stupid ammo thing overturned. I purchase most if not all my ammo for training on my own and mail order is sometimes if not most times the cheapest. Which is why I made the contribution. Sorry to go off subject a bit.

I never said we are being handicapped. I was saying others are berating us for NOT being handicapped along with the rest of the population. While I do agree purchases are made that are in no way intended for work related use, it is a situation we take advantage of and one that I know everyone else would if they had the chance to. The hypocrisy there angers me like us taking advantage of the situation does everyone else.

I have made some non rostered handgun purchases which I never intend to use for duty use, but off duty use for a number of reasons. Some guns were looked at for research reasons that I purchased. No, those guns will probably never make our authorized duty use list.

As far as the AW's are concerned ( I do NOT mean to be insulting) but that thinking is backwards. A LEO purchases a rifle for work use and uses it his entire career. Just because he is no longer an LEO at the end of the road, he should give it back or have it purchased back? How does that argument fit into everyone should be able to buy an AR because in the end, they are just rifles. You play into the liberal argument of those rifles are for "special" people only. Granted it is a crappy situation that we can buy them and everyone else can't, but that again goes back to people being bitter at the cop and not the politician around here. This argument could go for days with numerous examples, I know. To me, it seems like people here are saying I can't have that ball, so NO ONE should when in fact we are all trying to get the ball to be purchasable by everyone.

@Anthonyca - Threads do start out as these bad cops screwed the pooch. I admit, cops screw the pooch a lot. Sometimes it is the nature of the job where it isn't lab conditions we work in and sometimes it's because the cop should never been hired to a position of authroity. You do have to admit, posts in those threads often degrade into something akin to all cops are (fill in the blank) type posts. I honestly do believe those are the true feelings of the poster of all law enforcement officials and not just the bad apples. The post that started out as a video of what cops face on a day to day basis quicky degraded into a what's so special type thing when I believe it was meant as a support type post. I think no matter where we look, scumbags are everywhere. Cops just get a harder rap cause we are suppose to be held to a higher standard and people just love seeing authority figures fall or just simply love to harp on them when simple mistakes are made. Hey I admit, I am a person and make mistakes. I make less of them as I get older thanks to the earlier mistakes I made. But I still make them.

[yzErnie]

I frequently use the anti-LEO sentiment of society as a tool in my shift briefings to motivate my troops and me to continue to strive for perfection. The good people of our community deserve that. I'm wise enough to know that none of us here on earth will ever be absolutely perfect but, that philosophy works pretty well and the men and women on my shift(s) are willing to work hard and do the right things. For me, that reward is priceless.

[1-M-42]

from the standpoint of the AW or Off List Handgun rules they make as little sense to us as they do to non LEOs. They didn't consult with street level cops when making these asinine laws...Hell, they didn't consult with anyone with a modicum of common sense. It's the world we live in in California, a place where the majority of the State, geographically, is controlled by just two major population centers, both of which are as far from reality as you can get. That is why nearly every LEO that I know, and after 31 years it's quite a few, is willing to pull up stakes and flee the moment they retire. I will, and will be taking every single bit of my retirement and will spend it someplace where I won't be taxed and regulated out of existence. I won't give the left leaning fools any more of my time and money then I have to.

[Falconis]

My question is, when the roster law suit comes into full force, if it hasn't already, which Officers here are willing to testify that the safe handgun list makes no sense what so ever. I can't cause my department would railroad me to the unemployment line.

I guess I should read up on that more.