must read for LEO

[yzErnie]

Did you read the article?
In the F'ing face is about as good a shot placement as you're going to get.
Oh and the SEVERAL rounds that hit center mass aren't bad either.

Whoa there big guy...no need to get pissy. Center mass hit(s) or hit(s) to the face is not a guaranteed stop. A handgun is not designed to be a one shot stopper either. If you happen to be lucky enough to damage a vital area or damage the CNS you might get a one shot stop. Just so you know, more people are killed in the USA (and worldwide) with a .22lr round than any other handgun round. That is certainly contrary to the 'bigger is better' but people will debate this until the end of time and never agree.

I would simply ask you this....Have you ever been involved in a real life lethal force situation?

[SScott]

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[SScott]

Oh yeah and I forgot what round was used in that shooting in AZ?
You know the one where she was shot in the head and is still alive?
Was that a 9mm round?

[9mmepiphany]

In the F'ing face is about as good a shot placement as you're going to get.

What you wrote doesn't counter what I said.
When trying to kill some one center mass and head shots are your best bet.
End of story.

You know the one where she was shot in the head and is still alive?

While I didn't try to counter what you posted, it seems you've done a very good job of it yourself.

I guess it wasn't really the End of Story

[yzErnie]

Controlled environment and sterile test atmospheres cannot and do not mimick real life scenarios. There are simply to many variables involved when shooting a live target.

There is a HUGE misunderstanding among folks about being shot in the head...or for that matter in the 10 ring. Just as with a shot to the torso, if the projectile does not strike a vital location of the brain the target will not become incapacitated. Caliber is a non-issue in this. A miss with a 9mm or a 454 Casul is still a miss.

You never answered my question asking if you had been involved in a real life application of lethal force.

[SScott]

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[Omega13device]

Can anyone provide a verifiable story of someone taking 11 hits from a 45, 8 of which were fatal and the person fought for 10 minutes? How about 5 minutes? Maybe but I don't think so.

Sgt Major Brad Kasal was shot 7 times at close range with 7.62x39 and survived. Should we therefore conclude that 7.62x39 is not an effective round?

Anecdotal data isn't particularly useful for drawing real-world conclusions. The facts behind stories are hard to verify, the specific circumstances are not controlled, and lots of details are left out (what ammo was used, distances, what drugs the person may have been on, etc.).

My concern here is that someone would draw the conclusion that using .45 ACP automatically means they will drop a bad guy in one or two shots. There's no magical caliber that automatically stops people and keep in mind that the bad guy has a say in how the fight ends.

[SScott]

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[Notorious]

My Grandma got shot with a .50 cal from a m82a1 25 times and lived.
Most of those were head shots and she was 86 at the time.
It doesn't matter what you get shot with it's all about round placement.

Where does she live? I'm staying out of that neighborhood!