LEOs' thoughts on bullet buttons?

[Ron-Solo]

Any news on LAPD or Sheriff info regarding bullet buttons?

I know lots of us with LASD have bullet button weapons, some of us more than others.

Since I'm not currently working field ops, I don't know what info is out there about them. I trained several of my guys before they went to patrol.

[centurycitygun]

It would be so helpful to us law abiding citizens if LASD or LAPD released a simple bulletin, similar to Sacramento PD, that clarified the legality of using a bullet button. Please.

[Keystone]

My god man, you'll be fine.

[scootergmc]

Seriously? Do you make sure the "Raw food warning" notices are posted at Sushi restaurants prior to dining? You should seek help.

[Roccobro]

The last two posters said it nicer than I was going to.

Go live your life. It pretty dang fun out there.

Justin

[Hans_Gruber]

Same goes for a Hi Point Carbine I imagine?

[luckystrike]

Same goes for a Hi Point Carbine I imagine?

A high point carbine should only be transported for the reason of trading it towards a decent firearm

[7222 Hawker]

CHP is well aware of the bullet button legalities. No worries from our guys...

[Dexster]

It would be so helpful to us law abiding citizens if LASD or LAPD released a simple bulletin, similar to Sacramento PD, that clarified the legality of using a bullet button. Please.

Every range rifle range I have gone to in the last 2 years has had multiple AR-15 platforms with BB setups...

Everyone knows about this law as others have said... you're safe as long as you follow the flowchart.

I really don't understand the fear involved in this... You're asking for a memo over and over but at the end of the day I bet it won't change your fear on the situation bud :\

[Ranger Rick]

I am not endorsing Turners, although their prices are pretty good. here is this weeks flyer with a Del Ton RIA 223 on sale for 799.00. Go to the Reseda store and pick it up. If I am not mistaken, someone correct me please, I believe Reseda is patrolled by LAPD.

http://www.turners.com/engage/events_weeklyad.html

Reseda is patrolled by LAPD and I purchased many a firearms from Turners when I lived in Reseda over 10 years ago.

I have since moved to AZ and enjoy the gun laws here, or perhaps the lack there of.

And, as for my thoughts on bullet buttons: They're lame!

[centurycitygun]

Every range rifle range I have gone to in the last 2 years has had multiple AR-15 platforms with BB setups...

Everyone knows about this law as others have said... you're safe as long as you follow the flowchart.

I really don't understand the fear involved in this... You're asking for a memo over and over but at the end of the day I bet it won't change your fear on the situation bud :\

This is why...from Calguns Foundation

Hey everyone - this story is a little long but I feel its best that way. This is the EPIC SAGA of Orange County Sheriff's Deputy J. Finley, a reserve SWAT officer, seizing my AR-15 and how I was helped getting it back.

At 16:40 on 11-3-09, I was driving my car down Santa Margarita Parkway in Rancho Santa Margarita. A black police interceptor nearly hit my right front corner while he was changing lanes, and then braked hard and got behind me at the left turn light. I immediately got off my cell phone at that point. The police interceptor turned on its flashing lights, and I pulled over on a side street. I was then contacted by Deputy J. Finley of OCSD's Rancho Santa Margarita Police Services. He's a reserve S.W.A.T. officer and was in a black unmarked car.

From the very beginning of the stop, at 16:45, Finley was rude, suspicious, and seemed to be almost angry with me. I'm 20 years old, and have long hair. He asked me if there was any "guns, drugs, knives" etc in the car, to which i flatly responded "There is nothing illegal in the car sir." He then claimed to smell marijuana (this was quite obviously a lie), and pointed out a sandwich bag (yes, a sandwich bag) on my floor. I showed him it was empty, and smelled like FOOD (imagine that!) but at this point he had made up his mind.

Finley ordered my passenger and I to step out of the vehicle. At this point due to the fact that I am on informal probation for a misdemeanor, backup came and a search of my car commenced. When Finley made his way to the trunk, I informed him that I had my rifle in a range bag, unloaded in the trunk. He removed my rifle, a Stag Arms lower with a flat top upper and 10/30 pmag magazine locked in with a BULLET BUTTON. It was like someone had just rained guns and drugs from the great impound locker in the sky. Finley continued to search the car, finding my incomplete AK-47 build, some bulk 7.62 ammunition, and other random junk. Every time he found another gun related item, he would hold it up and look at me like I had killed his sister, cat, and broken his bicycle. He continued hassling me about where I got the bullets and what was I doing with "all this stuff". He set the rifle down on the trunk of his car during the search, and left the muzzle pointed straight at me. Since childhood, I was trained to treat all guns as loaded, and being in that position put me into a state of extreme panic and anxiety. I was treated like a second class citizen at best, but more just plain like a criminal.

I attempted to explain to Deputy Finley the legal definition of fixed magazine, and how my bullet button only allowed the magazine to be removed with a tool, which met the DOJ's and law's standards. In hindsight I should have had a more snarky remark for him removing the magazine with something on his belt loop. Finley repeatedly yelled in my face, and at one point slammed his voice recorder violently on the trunk of his car, shouting that "EVERYTHING YOU SAY IS BEING ****ING RECORDED". He also claimed that legislation had been passed outlawing bullet buttons, and that he knew this because two of his cases were what made that happen. He then told me a bullet is not a tool, and that I was in possession of an assault weapon. I was given a receipt for my rifle, ammunition, and magazines, and charged with no crime. Finley also gave me false information about how I could contest the seizure, told me that I absolutely would never be getting back my rifle, and that I would be receiving a call within a week or so regarding criminal charges.[/I]
Calguns eventually successfully defended this case but this not something I'm interested in undergoing. I'm a member of the state bar and I might risk losing my license to perform practice.

[753X0]

really?

" I'm a member of the state bar and I might risk losing my license to perform practice."

Wah.
Good heavens. Grow a pair, and become a litigator.

[lrdchivalry]

This is why...from Calguns Foundation

Hey everyone - this story is a little long but I feel its best that way. This is the EPIC SAGA of Orange County Sheriff's Deputy J. Finley, a reserve SWAT officer, seizing my AR-15 and how I was helped getting it back.

At 16:40 on 11-3-09, I was driving my car down Santa Margarita Parkway in Rancho Santa Margarita. A black police interceptor nearly hit my right front corner while he was changing lanes, and then braked hard and got behind me at the left turn light. I immediately got off my cell phone at that point. The police interceptor turned on its flashing lights, and I pulled over on a side street. I was then contacted by Deputy J. Finley of OCSD's Rancho Santa Margarita Police Services. He's a reserve S.W.A.T. officer and was in a black unmarked car.

From the very beginning of the stop, at 16:45, Finley was rude, suspicious, and seemed to be almost angry with me. I'm 20 years old, and have long hair. He asked me if there was any "guns, drugs, knives" etc in the car, to which i flatly responded "There is nothing illegal in the car sir." He then claimed to smell marijuana (this was quite obviously a lie), and pointed out a sandwich bag (yes, a sandwich bag) on my floor. I showed him it was empty, and smelled like FOOD (imagine that!) but at this point he had made up his mind.

Finley ordered my passenger and I to step out of the vehicle. At this point due to the fact that I am on informal probation for a misdemeanor, backup came and a search of my car commenced. When Finley made his way to the trunk, I informed him that I had my rifle in a range bag, unloaded in the trunk. He removed my rifle, a Stag Arms lower with a flat top upper and 10/30 pmag magazine locked in with a BULLET BUTTON. It was like someone had just rained guns and drugs from the great impound locker in the sky. Finley continued to search the car, finding my incomplete AK-47 build, some bulk 7.62 ammunition, and other random junk. Every time he found another gun related item, he would hold it up and look at me like I had killed his sister, cat, and broken his bicycle. He continued hassling me about where I got the bullets and what was I doing with "all this stuff". He set the rifle down on the trunk of his car during the search, and left the muzzle pointed straight at me. Since childhood, I was trained to treat all guns as loaded, and being in that position put me into a state of extreme panic and anxiety. I was treated like a second class citizen at best, but more just plain like a criminal.

I attempted to explain to Deputy Finley the legal definition of fixed magazine, and how my bullet button only allowed the magazine to be removed with a tool, which met the DOJ's and law's standards. In hindsight I should have had a more snarky remark for him removing the magazine with something on his belt loop. Finley repeatedly yelled in my face, and at one point slammed his voice recorder violently on the trunk of his car, shouting that "EVERYTHING YOU SAY IS BEING ****ING RECORDED". He also claimed that legislation had been passed outlawing bullet buttons, and that he knew this because two of his cases were what made that happen. He then told me a bullet is not a tool, and that I was in possession of an assault weapon. I was given a receipt for my rifle, ammunition, and magazines, and charged with no crime. Finley also gave me false information about how I could contest the seizure, told me that I absolutely would never be getting back my rifle, and that I would be receiving a call within a week or so regarding criminal charges.[/I]
Calguns eventually successfully defended this case but this not something I'm interested in undergoing. I'm a member of the state bar and I might risk losing my license to perform practice.

If your that worried then do not own a cali legal ar or ak. Simple. I think you are worrying to much about the situation. If it were illegal then a lot of leo's in this forum, myself included, would be risking losing their jobs and criminally prosecuted, yet we have our BB equipped rifles, second, if they were not legal then you would not be able to openly walk into a gun shop and buy one.

Relax, they are 100% legal.

[Lrchops]

I am a cop in Sacramento County. I believe bullet button are rediculous for any law abiding honest responsible citizen. Bullet buttons laws are an insult to rightious gun owners. The only people who have to worry about a bullet button violation with me are people that can't have a gun in the first place (street thugs, gangsters, felons, parollees, probationers, drug users/dealers) But generally these people dont even own high dollar guns!!! The good citizens are the only ones hurt by this stupid law. Makes and honest man a criminal if he/she decides to turn out that screw.

[OHW]

Most gun shops now carry BB AR style rifles. If they were illegal, Turners would not carry them. Most LA area officers have been briefed about the rifles. I have not seen any "official" paperwork issued by any local department. My departmets armed unit have been briefed and we have passed around the Calguns flowchart. I have friends in LAPD, LASD, LAX PD, HUNT PARK PD, PASADENA PD, GLENDALE PD As well as other departments. Everyone has said the same thing when I brought up the subject, they were informed during briefing. Some have even been given the Calguns flowchart as well. If you feel uncomfortable building your own, just pay the extra money to buy a fully built rifle from a reputable local gun shop. You can feel more comfortable by knowing that you purchased a product that has already been reviewed by the BATF and the DOJ firearms Division inpectors. If they were illegal, you would not see Turners advertising them in their weekly flyer. enjoy and stop being paranoid.

Your briefing would be official. Thanks to the FOIA you should be able to release the notes. There are other "briefings" that have been documented.

Now tell me the day, time , location and any other pertinent details of said briefing.