Red Light Camera Tickets

[pacrat]

Rick;

Obviously if an officer witnesses the violation and issues a citation. The camera is moot. Unless the violator goes to court, and the officer uses the digital evidence against them. Still the officer is involved. Not an IT weenie in Az or Tx. Who as already noted. Isn't going to be available in court.

Especially considering how Ca courts have shown disdain for "Red Light" tickets.

What ADA is going to go before a judge and ask for a "criminal arrest warrant". Because an IT weenie in another state claimed a traffic infraction was committed?

[RickD427]

Rick;

Obviously if an officer witnesses the violation and issues a citation. The camera is moot. Unless the violator goes to court, and the officer uses the digital evidence against them. Still the officer is involved. Not an IT weenie in Az or Tx. Who as already noted. Isn't going to be available in court.

Especially considering how Ca courts have shown disdain for "Red Light" tickets.

What ADA is going to go before a judge and ask for a "criminal arrest warrant". Because an IT weenie in another state claimed a traffic infraction was committed?

To give you a direct answer, any DDA that is presented with the case is going to request the warrant. For routine matters like this, there isn't much "professional pride" involved. The DDA is going to review the case to make sure the factual basis is there and then he/she is going to send a stack of requests to the judge. Traffic cases get handled "en mass" in the court system. It's very unlikely that the DDA and issuing judge are even going to see each other during the process.

But as a practical matter, some jurisdictions may opt for the "low hanging fruit" approach (and I've heard some anecdotal evidence supporting this) where they'll send a dunning letter, accept payment from those who pay, and forgo collection efforts from those who don't. The criminal complaint route takes more work than does the citation route.

But my point remains, if you disregard the dunning letter, expecting the issue to go away, and the LE agency pursues the complaint avenue, you'll learn of it when you get arrested on the warrant.

[Mr. Blue]

Please keep in mind that no city in the state can issue a citation for an automated red light violation unless the violation occurred in the presence of the issuing officer. There are a few exceptions to the "in the presence" rule, one being the case where an officer, with special training, investigates an accident.

But that doesn't mean that such violations can be ignored. There's two different ways that you can be bought into court for a traffic violation. One is to appear in response to a citation. That is by far the most common.

But it is also possible to be charged via a criminal complaint. Rather than
issue a citation, the LEO can present the criminal case to a prosecutor for the filing of charges. Once charges are filed, an arrest warrant can be issued. Given the minor nature of the offense, most prosecutors will send an arraignment letter (basically an invitation to come to court and settle the case). If the defendant ignores the letter, then an arrest warrant is sought.

The net result is basically the same, although a lot more paperwork is involved.

[Mr. Blue]

A friend works for Redflex. It’s the Australian company that installs cameras all over America.

She cannot get a ticket dismissed for anyone. They send them out for city owned / restricted plates too.

I think you were told a fud

It’s not a ticket that gets dismissed. It’s the video evidence before it even gets to being a ticket. In my area, the video is recorded, then verified by someone. If it proves the person made no violation, its dismissed. You might be right that I was told by different parties the same thing, we have all heard dumb rumors go around.

[pacrat]

Back to the 6th A aspect of these red light cameras.

Ginsburg in Bullcoming v New Mexico aptly said.....[NO, I didn't make the name up] He was Native American.

(a) If an out-of-court statement is testimonial, it may not be introduced against the accused at trial unless the witness who made the
statement is unavailable and the accused has had a prior opportunity
to confront that witness. Pp. 8V14.

For the last decade, Ca Superior Courts have increasingly disallowed 3rd party photos as "evidence". http://thenewspaper.com/news/34/3411.asp

Macias received a ticket in the mail after his car was photographed in Victorville on January 10, 2009 making a slow right-hand turn at a light that had been red for 0.36 seconds. His attorney, Robert D. Conaway, argued that when San Bernardino County Sheriff's Deputy Baker testified as a witness against Macias, Baker had no personal knowledge of the facts of the case. As such, his evidence was hearsay.

Baker countered that he had attended a 20-hour seminar provided by Redflex Traffic Systems, the for-profit Australian company that runs all aspects of the photo ticketing program for Victorville. Under questioning, Baker had no idea whether the photographs he brought to court had ever been encrypted or compressed. He did not know whether the Redflex technicians who worked on the camera system were certified or qualified in any way. The trial judge found Baker's testimony sufficient and convicted Macias. The three-judge panel disagreed, insisting that Baker's evidence was not sufficient under the law.

"He did not, and could not, attest that the photos or videos were true representations of what they purported to depict because he had no such personal knowledge," the appellate judges wrote. "In short, Deputy Baker failed to provide any of the evidence necessary to lay a foundation for the admission of the photographs or the videotape into evidence... Accordingly, the evidence was inadmissible under the Evidence Code section 1401, and the trial court abused its discretion by admitting it. In the absence of any admissible evidence to support the conviction, the judgment must be reversed."

The Macias ruling. http://thenewspaper.com/rlc/docs/2011/ca-macias.pdf

If a LEO witnesses a blatant red light violation. I'm all for them light'n em up. And writ'n em up. But when they are tasked with REVENUE DUTY.

[lexo98]

[Mr. Blue]

Thats good to hear.

[Hateca]

In the area I worked they never issued red light camera tickets when the violation was right turning on red. Because the driver were almost required to ease into the crosswalk to see to clear on coming traffic. This would trigger the camera even if the driver stopped prior. They would be flagged by the company but the reviewing officer would reject them. The traffic company was only paid when the reviewing officer issued a citation, didn’t Matter how many photos they sent the department. Failing to pay or responding to the notice didn't go to warrant, the fees got attached to the vehicle registration like parking fines. On duty emergency vehicles were always dismissed at review, that’s not to say the officer didn’t get a talking to it just depended on the circumstances.
Just before I retired they got rid of the cameras due to it becoming a PITA causing more issues then it solved.

[IrishJoe3]

to answer the OPs question with my experience, officers off duty who got red light tickets or bridge tolls and who had confidential plates (no address listed on the DMV vehicle registration) would instead get the fine/bill at the station. And it was always one of those 'you will handle this immediately, and you'd better not embarrass the department'. Heck patrol cars rolling lights/sirens would get the red light picture set to the department (though obviously wouldn't be ticketed).

Personally I detest red light cameras. The point of traffic enforcement is to get the motoring public to change their driving behavior and drive safer. Every car stopped for a traffic violation (even if a verbal warning is given) is witnessed by hundreds of other drivers who are reminded they should probably drive a little more carefully otherwise they might get stopped. You don't get that visual deferent with red light cameras. you also don't get common sense or discretion with camera; it's the same violation regardless if it's blowing a stale red at 90mph or California stopping a right turn at 2 AM.

[Mr. Blue]

to answer the OPs question with my experience, officers off duty who got red light tickets or bridge tolls and who had confidential plates (no address listed on the DMV vehicle registration) would instead get the fine/bill at the station. And it was always one of those 'you will handle this immediately, and you'd better not embarrass the department'. Heck patrol cars rolling lights/sirens would get the red light picture set to the department (though obviously wouldn't be ticketed).

Personally I detest red light cameras. The point of traffic enforcement is to get the motoring public to change their driving behavior and drive safer. Every car stopped for a traffic violation (even if a verbal warning is given) is witnessed by hundreds of other drivers who are reminded they should probably drive a little more carefully otherwise they might get stopped. You don't get that visual deferent with red light cameras. you also don't get common sense or discretion with camera; it's the same violation regardless if it's blowing a stale red at 90mph or California stopping a right turn at 2 AM.

Very well spoken, I hope you are an officer in my area! Seriously.

[ghideon]

Not a fan of the red light cameras, especially when they have short yellow timings to increase revenue:

https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2013/06/25/california-red-light-camera-critics-say-yellow-lights-too-short/

Got 'caught' by one in Fremont years ago, before 2010 when that article notes Fremont increased the yellow duration by 0.5 seconds. I had serious anxiety at that particular light for months after that.

[yzErnie]

OP, before I retired I got a speed camera ticket on I-10 in Arizona. I was 1 mph above their 10 mph "gift" speed. I was wrong and I paid it. Your information that cops call in favors is not wholly accurate.

[bobboberson]

The idea that cops don't get traffic tickets and can just make them go away if they do is false. I was working outside of my regular patrol area in a marked patrol vehicle and accidentally ended up on a toll road. By the time I realized it I didn't have time to get off at the last exit. I ended up with a toll violation ticket on my desk a few weeks later. I had to pay the fine and move on with life.

[ptmn]

Yes, cops get tickets. Over 10 years ago, I got one the day after getting back from Iraq...and didn't know it. This is what made me declare war on redlight camera tickets.

The unit was still on our demob orders and I was involved in renting vehicles for the unit to use. One of those vehicles went through a redlight camera and I got mailed a ticket a whopping 99 days after the incident that included a blurry obstructed photo (person in photo appeared most likely Caucasian, I'm Asian) and a form stating I could nominate the driver. Yes this agency was mailing tickets out to listed vehicle renters without positively identifying the driver through DMV photos.

I'm not stating the agency, but a call down to the Coordinator wasn't effective, I made no mention of my civilian LE employment.

Had to file a TR-205 and submitted for discovery and got stonewalled on my requests. Had to call the coordinator, who told me I was following advice of angry people on the internet and that I didn't have a right to the discovery.

I still didn't mention my civ employment, but I did get that Coordinator to cough up a figure of I think $241 to get the evidence. Even better, I got him to email me that.

Submitted my TR205 with a photo of my CDL, a current photo of myself and the fact I was denied the opportunity to create a meaningful defense due to evidence being held ransom for $241 along with the $241 email.

Ticket was dismissed by the Traffic Commissioner.

[Ishooter]

I went through quite a debacle involving a red light camera.
I was working a construction job for the city of garden grove driving a streetsweeper. The road was controlled by city workers and down to one lane. I did numerous passes through the light and received 26 yes 26 red light camera violations. Because some idiot at my work confirmed i was the driver since it was a company truck they stuck them all in my name. I finally had it taken care of but man was it a pain had to go back and forth with the city and the company running the cameras didnt want to drop it.
I have heard some citys dont have the legal authority to ticket you in this manner and you can simply ignore the ticket without consequence.

I thought the city of Garden Grove voted to remove all cameras since last year.

Street light cameras shouldn't be there to collect money rather than providing public safeties.