Red Light Camera Tickets

[Mr. Blue]

[edgerly779]

Should not happen

[P5Ret]

I don't know how it works where you are, but when I was working the red light cameras were not under the control of the agency. It was a contracted company that reviewed the images, and sent the image to the PD for review and to issue a citation. Yes some get rejected, but simply erasing the video or image is probably going to cost someone a job.

As to your other question, how do you know they aren't responding to a call? I know I've done it an I'm sure most everyone else has not activated any emergency lights when going to a call, making a u-turn to go after a traffic violation and so on. Lights are a big billboard that something is wrong, I didn't always want to advertise what I was doing.

[RickD427]

It's quite true that LEOs have discretion in the issuing of citations, and that may impact the likelihood of an LEO receiving a citation when stopped. I always used the metric of whether I believed a motorist was likely dissuaded from repeating a violation as a result of the stop, or if they needed a larger dose of the criminal justice system. I cited about 70% of the folks I stopped and that includes other LEO's, but not at the 70% level. Most were quite embarrassed by the circumstances of the stop and didn't need the extra dose. But my very first personnel complaint was made by a LEO who I had cited after he maintained that he "couldn't be cited because he was a LEO" (I just love a challenge). But that individual made it real clear that his conduct wasn't going to change and that he legitimately needed that "extra dose." (He also got that "extra dose." He "went off" on the judge hearing the case. The judge ordered a transcript made of the trial and forwarded to his agency. He was subsequently fired for that, and for other misconduct).

Once a citation is issued, there are several mechanisms in place to ensure that they do not "disappear." Those audit trails have effectively revealed efforts of some in the system to do so, usually with the result of them being fired and criminally charged. Two deputies of my former agency are currently awaiting trial on such charges.

It ain't worth it. The cost of a traffic ticket isn't that great compared to the expense of getting fired. I received exactly one traffic citation while working as an LEO. I did what I was cited for, and I promptly paid the ticket and moved on. In the grand scheme of things, it wasn't a big deal.

Automated red light tickets present a couple of unique challenges to the system. The first is that there is no law that makes it illegal to be the registered owner of a vehicle that travels through a red light. One of the elements of proof is to show that the defendant is the person who was driving. That's often done by matching the Driver's License photo to the photo taken of the violation.

Another issue that existed (and I say that in the past tense because I haven't followed any changes in this area of law since retiring) is that a red light violation is a crime (it's a little crime, but still a crime). A traffic citation is a form of arrest. With just a few exceptions, an infraction crime must be committed in the presence of the officer issuing the citation. That isn't the case with automated red light violations. The LE agency can prosecute such violations via a criminal complaint, but that's an involved process.

Most agencies that I am aware of, have followed administrative processes, rather than legal ones, to recover fines from automated camera systems. That does open some avenues of defense to an automated citation, and there are a lot of web sources describing those.

[esy]

I got a red light ticket recently and paid it. Sure, I know people and judges or what not that could've probably made it disappear. I didn't want to be "that guy." I didn't make the red light so I paid it. Done deal.

For your other question, 2nd P5Ret's response.

[therealnickb]

Interesting topic in our “year of the mask”.

[Pessimist]

Interesting topic in our “year of the mask”.

God point. Someone wearing a mask and sunglasses is not going to be identifiable in the photo/video.

Similarly, wonder how many motorcyclists are cited by red light cameras? If riding with a helmet and dark face shield there is no way the camera will be able to see the rider's face.

[woolybugger]

I went through quite a debacle involving a red light camera.
I was working a construction job for the city of garden grove driving a streetsweeper. The road was controlled by city workers and down to one lane. I did numerous passes through the light and received 26 yes 26 red light camera violations. Because some idiot at my work confirmed i was the driver since it was a company truck they stuck them all in my name. I finally had it taken care of but man was it a pain had to go back and forth with the city and the company running the cameras didnt want to drop it.
I have heard some citys dont have the legal authority to ticket you in this manner and you can simply ignore the ticket without consequence.

[sandiego67]

I got a ticket for blowing thru a yellow/red light in Del Mar, CA 10 years ago.

My wife's cousin is a defense attorney and told me to deny it was me in the car.

I went to the Vista Courthouse to take care of it. I told the clerk that I wanted to go in front of the Judge. She said I would have to plead "Not Guilty" to get in front of the Judge.

I said "ok".

She said, "would you like to see the evidence on video?"

I said "sure"

I went over to a PC and typed in my violation number. Up pops a High Definition video with several angles showing the front license plate, the rear license plate, the light turning from yellow to red as I was crossing the crosswalk, a clear picture of my face and a speed gauge showing I was going 5 miles over the speed limit as I gunned it to make the light.

I said, "Thank You, who do I make the check out to?"

My "attorney" said I should have gone in front of the Judge and denied it was me.

I am not enough of an ******* to sit in front of a Judge and tell them that

1. it is my car,
2. the driver looks very much like me but it isn't.

[Mr. Blue]

I got a ticket for blowing thru a yellow/red light in Del Mar, CA 10 years ago.

My wife's cousin is a defense attorney and told me to deny it was me in the car.

I went to the Vista Courthouse to take care of it. I told the clerk that I wanted to go in front of the Judge. She said I would have to plead "Not Guilty" to get in front of the Judge.

I said "ok".

She said, "would you like to see the evidence on video?"

I said "sure"

I went over to a PC and typed in my violation number. Up pops a High Definition video with several angles showing the front license plate, the rear license plate, the light turning from yellow to red as I was crossing the crosswalk, a clear picture of my face and a speed gauge showing I was going 5 miles over the speed limit as I gunned it to make the light.

I said, "Thank You, who do I make the check out to?"

My "attorney" said I should have gone in front of the Judge and denied it was me.

I am not enough of an ******* to sit in front of a Judge and tell them that

1. it is my car,
2. the driver looks very much like me but it isn't.

Brakes slam

[pacrat]

Amendment VI
In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the state and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his defense.

I have heard some citys dont have the legal authority to ticket you in this manner and you can simply ignore the ticket without consequence.

Correct..............such as all of LA Cnty.

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2010-sep-30-la-me-red-light-camera-20100930-story.html

http://www.highwayrobbery.net/redlightcamsdocsLACountyDocsContd.html#Countywide

Actually cities or counties don't have red light cameras. Not that are theirs. Nor do LEOs monitor them. This is a revenue driven money grab. There are [3] corporations that contract with municipalities for the privilege of placing them in their jurisdiction.

https://worldjusticeproject.org/news/3-private-companies-making-money-red-light-tickets

TWO in AZ, and ONE in Tx. Now for my reason for posting the text of the Sixth A. Referring to the bolded in quote.

Since no municipality that enters such a contract. Makes available for subpoena the individual IT Weenie in Phoenix or Dallas that made the "accusation" against the cited individual. There is no avenue for the cited individual to be able to question the accuser in court.

That is "I believe" the very basis that Ca. Courts have refused to allow municipalities the use of the DMV to cudgel drivers into paying them.

[RickD427]

Correct..............such as all of LA Cnty.

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2010-sep-30-la-me-red-light-camera-20100930-story.html

http://www.highwayrobbery.net/redlightcamsdocsLACountyDocsContd.html#Countywide

Actually cities or counties don't have red light cameras. Not that are theirs. Nor do LEOs monitor them. This is a revenue driven money grab. There are [3] corporations that contract with municipalities for the privilege of placing them in their jurisdiction.

https://worldjusticeproject.org/news/3-private-companies-making-money-red-light-tickets

TWO in AZ, and ONE in Tx. Now for my reason for posting the text of the Sixth A. Referring to the bolded in quote.

Since no municipality that enters such a contract. Makes available for subpoena the individual IT Weenie in Phoenix or Dallas that made the "accusation" against the cited individual. There is no avenue for the cited individual to be able to question the accuser in court.

That is "I believe" the very basis that Ca. Courts have refused to allow municipalities the use of the DMV to cudgel drivers into paying them.

Please keep in mind that no city in the state can issue a citation for an automated red light violation unless the violation occurred in the presence of the issuing officer. There are a few exceptions to the "in the presence" rule, one being the case where an officer, with special training, investigates an accident.

But that doesn't mean that such violations can be ignored. There's two different ways that you can be bought into court for a traffic violation. One is to appear in response to a citation. That is by far the most common.

But it is also possible to be charged via a criminal complaint. Rather than
issue a citation, the LEO can present the criminal case to a prosecutor for the filing of charges. Once charges are filed, an arrest warrant can be issued. Given the minor nature of the offense, most prosecutors will send an arraignment letter (basically an invitation to come to court and settle the case). If the defendant ignores the letter, then an arrest warrant is sought.

The net result is basically the same, although a lot more paperwork is involved.

[ivane068]

Red light cameras are typically run by a third party company. San Diego county did away with their cameras because of the 11 million dollars a year they brought in revenue, something like 9/10 million was going to the company. The remaining revenue wasn’t even covering the court cost. I think whoever you talked to was talking out off their A**...

[sealocan]

I've told this story here before but maybe it might help somehow.

I was stopped a stop sign that was labeled no turn on right (there also might have been a red light at that intersection but there was definitely a stop sign) where I was taking a right to get on the highway then an ambulance came up behind me so I pulled over and entered the on-ramp of the highway, just a little bit and then pulled over to complete stop so the ambulance could go by me. Later I received a red light ticket or a right on red light ticket where there was signage that you could not take a right turn at that location.
Just to plead my case in front of the court the city in Northern California where this happened made me pay the full amount of around $400 and change. Just so I could plead my case!
That told me it's a rigged system but I went ahead anyway and had go and fight at at least two visits at some kind of half-arsed Court.

Eventually I won the case but in complete honesty looking at all the time I wasted and hassles I had to go to fight it I would have been better off just paying it and forgetting about it. Even though I actually was just trying to help an ambulance get by me.

The funny thing is I think if it had been a red light and not a note turn on right stop sign some ambulances have a flashing light that is picked up by the red light system somehow, at least in some places or maybe that's just fire trucks that have that capability?

It really burned me that the ticket came from out of state and it was a total scam system that eventually got shut down. At least at that location.

I'm not telling you not to fight it just that it will be a pain in your butt that might be worth you just paying the extortion instead.

Do I still get out of the way of ambulances after that?
Of course I do.

[hermosabeach]

A friend works for Redflex. It’s the Australian company that installs cameras all over America.

She cannot get a ticket dismissed for anyone. They send them out for city owned / restricted plates too.

I think you were told a fud