Security Officer contact with armed subject

[fawndog]

Can you please cruise by the bike path, someone stole my tent.

[ronlglock]

[IrishJoe3]

Pissed off at myself for not catching it earlier...Guy could have shot me ..how stupid of me...how fkin stupid of me 🤬🤬

Nah. Coulda shoulda woulda. Don't worry about it, he didn't and it ended well. Sometimes you need something like this to shake up the ol' complacency.

Honestly I think you did fine. I probably would have done the same thing.

9 minutes feels like a long time, doesn't it it aint like the movies lol.

He was cooperative for a 5 min interaction and then let you disarm him? Depending on a TON of currently unknown factors, I would have unloaded his weapon, locked it in his car trunk, encouraged him to get a hotel room or made him call an Uber to his destination and help out a 2A brother in CA. There are a lot of things that could dictate the most appropriate course of action, and we will never know since we weren't there and are only hearing one side.

In general, sounds a little to me like you were looking for action and have now made our CA Dems proud.

Not being confrontational, legit question. Are you a LEO? Because I defiantly would NOT have done that. First, its illegal to leave a firearm unsecured in the car. And the moment I start acting outside the law and policy, I'm fully owning the consequences. There is no way I'm staking my career and reputation on Mr. Drunkard, who has already demonstrated TERRIBLE decision making abilities.

Can you imagine what would happen if I followed your advice and drunkard went back to his car and got the gun and shot someone? Or if the gun was stolen and used in a crime? No good deed goes unpunished, and that officer would be CRUCIFIED here and in the media despite having the purest of intentions. Way too much liability, and if someone chooses to be drunk and stupid, I have no obligation to put myself at risk, legal or physical.

In fact, I think Negolien DID help the 2A out, last thing we, as the 2A needs, is a drunk idiot making us all look bad.

[Shumba]

He was cooperative for a 5 min interaction and then let you disarm him? Depending on a TON of currently unknown factors, I would have unloaded his weapon, locked it in his car trunk, encouraged him to get a hotel room or made him call an Uber to his destination and help out a 2A brother in CA. There are a lot of things that could dictate the most appropriate course of action, and we will never know since we weren't there and are only hearing one side.

In general, sounds a little to me like you were looking for action and have now made our CA Dems proud.

Please note the BOLD above. Just trying to remind everyone of the totality of circumstances, disparity of force, etc., etc. etc.

Based on OP's original post, did this occur at a crack infested Motel 6 or at a Ritz Carlton?

We are relying on OP's training, experience (unknown) and tools to determine level of intoxication. Did he blow a .02 after a Coors Light or a .20 after downing a bottle of Jack.

Is OP 25 yrs old, 6'4", 250 lbs of MMA muscle and the offender is 60 yrs old 5'2" and a frail 120 lbs.?

What was the demeanor, conversation, etc. for the 5 minutes when OP was supposedly chill and just trying to help the guy?

Yes, the offender exhibited bad judgement (apparently drunk, and carrying with an invalid CCW) and yes the OP could have been shot by the guy.

I have just seen a lot of different LEO's who would all handle this situation in many different ways, DEPENDING on the facts above, which we DON'T know.

I have put some drunks in the back of a police car and some in a taxi cab on the way home, depending on the circumstances.

Can't argue with you about the liability (especially today with Bodycams) of not doing things by the book and having it come back to bite you. There are a lot of LEO's out there that have used equally poor judgement and gotten into a car while intoxicated and carrying. A lot of them had the benefit of the brass pass if they got pulled over (less today, then in the "old days"). There a few situations here in Orange County, where officers provided a fellow LEO this courtesy and it came back to bite them when the mis-behaving LEO caused trouble down the road shortly after contact.

Again, I think the offender in OP's post used very poor judgement, maybe terrible judgement depending on what actually happened. However, based on the limited information provided, the OP's description of the guy being cooperative for a decent period of time, the guy confirming he has a CCW, complying with being disarmed, and generally knowing the statistics of CCW holders shooting security guards, LEO's in circumstances like these (which we don't actually know) are pretty low, I'm not sure how it should have been handled. Maybe the OP handled it perfectly, maybe not.

I don't know what I would have done in that situation, but neither do any of you because you weren't there and will never know the actual facts. A lot of you seem like CNN reporters just filling in the unknown facts to fit your narrative.

That's the beauty of the internet, we can all just guess at the unknown information and feel like we are the most correct in our comments. Congrats, we all win!

[GizmoSD]

[Shumba]

locking the gun in the trunksimply collect them and write down what we know. , but they made their bed, now they get to lie in it.

Would you lock a gun in a car if he had a secure/lockable container secured to the frame of the vehicle? Most LEO's and CCW holders have some form of secure storage in their vehicles. Again, circumstances. I do acknowledge the risk of said person coming back and then doing something stupid with it, but that would depend if he was a .02 or a .20. I give a little more leeway to CCW holders.

I was just trying to point out that OP posted on the LEO forum seeking LEO approval/validation of his actions. Could be that we were getting a biased description of the facts, so just suggesting there could be other circumstances to consider. It is always fun to separate two parties and hear each version of the same story.

Also agreeing with your attitude of doing what you legally can to help those who seem to deserve it. Need more of your attitude and I enjoy working with the full-time LEOs who operate like this. Unfortunately (especially in CA) there are a lot of security guards and LEOs who will jam someone up for pretty minor/stupid things (even though there is a technical violation of the law).

Yes, LEO, but not really

[RedVines]

Pissed off at myself for not catching it earlier...Guy could have shot me ..how stupid of me...how fkin stupid of me ����

I think what you made you hesitate was wanting to do a CCW a favor vs worrying about your own safety. My advice is that your safety unequivocally and without hesitation wins that decision every time. Don't bring your preconceived notions and archetypes into the streets; just deal with what's in front of you at face value. I think those on this board that have been there done that will agree with me.

Like IrishJoe said don't beat yourself up too much. You have a good attitude and mindset. We all have close calls. Live and learn, then cross your fingers for the next one. That's all you can do. Stay safe.

[RedVines]

Depending on a TON of currently unknown factors, I would have unloaded his weapon, locked it in his car trunk, encouraged him to get a hotel room or made him call an Uber to his destination and help out a 2A brother in CA.

In general, sounds a little to me like you were looking for action and have now made our CA Dems proud.

I don't know what I would have done in that situation, but neither do any of you because you weren't there and will never know the actual facts. A lot of you seem like CNN reporters just filling in the unknown facts to fit your narrative.

Dude. You are literally the only person here that typed "I would have..." and then said "I don't know what i would have done". Nobody else here has pushed any kind of narrative or unknown facts except you.

If you're questioning the facts as the OP has reported then just say so. But if you're willing to accept what OP has written at face value, it's kind of a dick move for you to pass judgement on someone that's putting themselves out there and asking for honest feedback in order to improve themselves.

[hmvan]

[negolien]

I always try and go over what I could have done better. Anyone that doesn't shouldn't be in this buisness. I always go over the incident with the client to see if they would want us to handle things differently also.

Facts were exactly as stated but it was thru my eyes so of course there's some bias /shrug. I' am ok with how it went down though I might have eased up after cuffing him up. I had an idiot partner that couldn't clear a weapon or give proper directions to the dispatcher so I wanted to keep a firm control on the situation.

Probably handle it exactly the same way..I can't judge his intent I can only be vigilent and fair.

[ptmn]

For a security officer, I'm pretty darn happy with how you handled the situation. It's normally always better to wait for one of my sworn to arrive, but you made a judgement call based upon the facts that you had and balanced that with public safety before you acted. That in itself is very important if the situation goes south. You need to be able to justify your actions just like our sworn officers.

[Steve G]

Observe and report is your job. Period full stop. I would fire you if you worked for my company

[negolien]

Appreciate the comments..not looking to jam people up but also have to represent the clients and my companys interest along with public safety. Don't want to be THE GUARD who let someone go postal due to pc reasons or not wanting to inconvenience someone. Have had 0 blow back on this for now ..actually got some kudos. Scary for me going from customer service mode to gun mode. I don't care what some subject says..Officer safety first right?

[kel-tec-innovations]

All good, no one died, no shots fired. Irresponsible gun ownership makes the law abiding and good gun owners look bad.

Utah CCW no use in CA. Without or with permit drunk with a gun, pissing in public, car alarming constantly going off, this dude is way to drunk have any kind of equipment, tools, or anything especially a gun.

Good call. Treat everyone as armed. A quote that goes something like

‘Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.’ - Gen. James Matttis

[wayno21]

As Steve G, said. Terminated.
What did your post orders say, Industry standards for security guard would be not to engaged, when you saw a firearm a huge red flag was missed on your part. If you back up and replay your memory of what took place you will find other red flags earlier in your contact that you missed. observed and report, you call that in and wait for LEO to arrive. You mention your partners short comings and still made contact and sustained contact. If you know better to do better, as mentioned before get training. At the beginning you have no property damage other than a pee stain, at the end of the day it ended on a positive note. PM me off line if you need help with finding a training facility, also I am local.