Security Officer contact with armed subject

[negolien]

Hey All,

I am interested in the pro 2A guys take on this but general forums a troll fest. I know you all are both 2A and LEOs so I though you would be best for this question. Kinda long so bear with me facts matter.

I work as an unarmed Security Officer at a hotel but I carry everything else and have an exposed license,.. I ran into a guy that was drunk and urinating at the hotel at 2 am and his car alarm was repeatedly going off. I actuallly got a call for a noise complaint about 3 mins into the encounter. Subject carried a Utah CCW but didn't tell me he was armed until about 5 mins into contact. I was so low key it was ridiculous. I just wanted to get the guy to a room (he wasn't a guest but sure someone he knew was staying there as he was at an event there) his dress was obvious.

So let's do a quick fact check.

Drunk guy
urinating at hotel
Carrying a gun (Doesn't tell me till I see something weird aka 2 o' clock carry in an unzipped pair of suit pants) and ask him if he is armed and he says yes.

At this point I go from 0 to 100.. sorry I' am not well trained like you guys. I ask him to lean up against his vehicle in a firm manner and to let me see his hands. I asked him if I could disarm him and he said yes .. At this point we're still in ok territory. I 'am jacked a little but we're good. As soon as I take the weapon off him he starts squirming. I have me partner call PD as soon as he starts squirming. He escalates the issue to the point I cuffed him up for my safety and decide he is going to jail. I tell him of course after cuffing him. He was semi compliant with the cuffing. Soon as the cuffs go on he starts resisting. I took him to the ground and waited for the 9 min PD response .... He resisted even while cuffed and on the ground.

Charged with urinating in public and public intoxication (which I' am positive some ***** DA will drop btw).

I know I am going to hear a lot of de escalate but he's a stranger whos drunk pissing in the parking lot and carrying a gun. Damn right I was fkin scared.

I have two areas of feed back I was wanting.


1. Drunk while carrying with a ccw in California.. Isn't that illegal?

2. The contact itself.. I know I could have done better. I was as soft as possible till the firearm came up. How can I trust a drunk with a gun? I want to go home at the end of my shift.

I can take honest criticism we only grow by learning from our mistakes.

[SkyHawk]

His Utah CCW is not valid in CA, he was carrying illegally.

Take note: CA does not recognize ANY other state’s carry permits (except LEOSA).

What happened to his gun?

[Shumba]

He was cooperative for a 5 min interaction and then let you disarm him? Depending on a TON of currently unknown factors, I would have unloaded his weapon, locked it in his car trunk, encouraged him to get a hotel room or made him call an Uber to his destination and help out a 2A brother in CA. There are a lot of things that could dictate the most appropriate course of action, and we will never know since we weren't there and are only hearing one side.

In general, sounds a little to me like you were looking for action and have now made our CA Dems proud.

[esy]

1. I’m not aware of any law which explicitly states you cannot carry while drunk. Most agencies prohibit it and will revoke a permit if determined to be under the influence and carrying, however.

2. What criticism are you looking for out of the contact? It seems you wanted PD there immediately. Unless you’re in a super tiny city, a 9 min response time is pretty good. Plus, I’m sure the text of the call read you were security holding an adult, firearm is no longer in play, and subject was cuffed. Are you asking whether or not you should have contacted him?

[Yodaman]

Hey All,

I am interested in the pro 2A guys take on this but general forums a troll fest. I know you all are both 2A and LEOs so I though you would be best for this question. Kinda long so bear with me facts matter.

I work as an unarmed Security Officer at a hotel but I carry everything else and have an exposed license,.. I ran into a guy that was drunk and urinating at the hotel at 2 am and his car alarm was repeatedly going off. I actuallly got a call for a noise complaint about 3 mins into the encounter. Subject carried a Utah CCW but didn't tell me he was armed until about 5 mins into contact. I was so low key it was ridiculous. I just wanted to get the guy to a room (he wasn't a guest but sure someone he knew was staying there as he was at an event there) his dress was obvious.

So let's do a quick fact check.

Drunk guy
urinating at hotel
Carrying a gun (Doesn't tell me till I see something weird aka 2 o' clock carry in an unzipped pair of suit pants) and ask him if he is armed and he says yes.

At this point I go from 0 to 100.. sorry I' am not well trained like you guys. I ask him to lean up against his vehicle in a firm manner and to let me see his hands. I asked him if I could disarm him and he said yes .. At this point we're still in ok territory. I 'am jacked a little but we're good. As soon as I take the weapon off him he starts squirming. I have me partner call PD as soon as he starts squirming. He escalates the issue to the point I cuffed him up for my safety and decide he is going to jail. I tell him of course after cuffing him. He was semi compliant with the cuffing. Soon as the cuffs go on he starts resisting. I took him to the ground and waited for the 9 min PD response .... He resisted even while cuffed and on the ground.

Charged with urinating in public and public intoxication (which I' am positive some ***** DA will drop btw).

I know I am going to hear a lot of de escalate but he's a stranger whos drunk pissing in the parking lot and carrying a gun. Damn right I was fkin scared.

I have two areas of feed back I was wanting.


1. Drunk while carrying with a ccw in California.. Isn't that illegal?

2. The contact itself.. I know I could have done better. I was as soft as possible till the firearm came up. How can I trust a drunk with a gun? I want to go home at the end of my shift.

I can take honest criticism we only grow by learning from our mistakes.

Who charged him with public urination and intoxication? The PD?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[RedVines]

You made a judgement call for your safety and it sounds justified and reasonable. Trust your instincts and don't second guess yourself. hesitation is what gets you killed. Merry Christmas

[boattail]

Redvines nailed it

[flyer898]

If the IA makes sobriety a condition of the CHL, then he was unlawfully carrying. I am not aware of a CA statute that specifically proscribes drinking while carrying, but I might have forgotten; I am retired.
One of my former colleagues from the Mendocino County DA office was convicted in Sacramento of unlawfully carrying after a good shoot that happened while he was under the influence. The Mendocino County Sheriff has no alcohol as a condition of permits he issues.
I wonder what PC section was thought to prohibit public urination? The requested charge is usually 314.1, but it does not fit; the elements include being done for sexual gratification, and that is not met with simple urination.

[ARDude]

If the IA makes sobriety a condition of the CHL, then he was unlawfully carrying. I am not aware of a CA statute that specifically proscribes drinking while carrying, but I might have forgotten; I am retired.
One of my former colleagues from the Mendocino County DA office was convicted in Sacramento of unlawfully carrying after a good shoot that happened while he was under the influence. The Mendocino County Sheriff has no alcohol as a condition of permits he issues.
I wonder what PC section was thought to prohibit public urination? The requested charge is usually 314.1, but it does not fit; the elements include being done for sexual gratification, and that is not met with simple urination.

flyer,
647a involves sexual gratification, 314.1 only has to have someone be offended or appalled by by a subject exposing themselves.
We used to use 372PC or 314.1PC for urinating in public. Depending on the circumstance.

But, most times they were just held for 647(f).

[negolien]

Thanks for the responses..headed back to work now. Thanks redvines...yes PD charged him as he was a douchebag to them too. I just felt bad for the he guy honestly...he was too drunk to even care for himself so I couldn't just let him go at that point what if he got run over or something. Bad decisions on his part and I was looking for anything BUT action trust me lol. Thanks for ALL the responses though. I keep going over it like a slow motion movie...glad I got to go home ...

[negolien]

Pd response...9 mins for a 1 mile trip...that's how far away the pd unit was according to dispatch. One of the responding Officers said something like they weren't told a weapon was in play or he would have responded code 3...I am pro leo btw stuff happens love the men and women in Blue

Yes, I am spoiled though Folsom pd response for anything was like 3 minutes.

Not sure who would give a drunk guy who could barely hold a conversation back his weapon in the trunk or not. Liability would be huge if he went postal in the hotel after I have him his weapon back...really🤔.

One good thing came out of this...both helfand I are alive to complain right?🤗🤗🤗

[roostersgt]

You did the right thing. The idiot was obviously unable to care for himself, and others, due to his intoxication and further displayed his poor judgement by being armed. California does not recognize a CCW from any other state, as has been state, period. The man was begging to go to jail and why some here condone such behavior is puzzling. They don't tolerate that type of **** in ANY other state, 2A friendly, or otherwise. Overlooking an out of state person unknowingly violating our states' firearms laws is one thing, but a man so drunk he's publicly urinating while armed? His *** deserved to go to jail. Sorry, I draw the line at such stupidity.

[negolien]

Pissed off at myself for not catching it earlier...Guy could have shot me ..how stupid of me...how fkin stupid of me 🤬🤬

[SVT-40]

Thanks for the responses..headed back to work now. Thanks redvines...yes PD charged him as he was a douchebag to them too. I just felt bad for the he guy honestly...he was too drunk to even care for himself so I couldn't just let him go at that point what if he got run over or something. Bad decisions on his part and I was looking for anything BUT action trust me lol. Thanks for ALL the responses though. I keep going over it like a slow motion movie...glad I got to go home ...

Sounds like a great outcome... The idiot rightfully went to jail, and no body got hurt. Including the drunk idiot.

After you deal with a few hundred of these types of fools you will quit feeling sorry for them.

I always told my trainees to;

"Do the best job you can in the very limited time you have to make good decisions, and live with the consequences. and don't second guess those decisions."

Have a wonderful Christmas!!

[scbauer]

Not sure how others feel, but I’ve got a personal rule that I don’t carry if I know I’ll be drinking. Not even 1 beer. Just a personal decision, but it’s rather easy since I don’t carry 24x7 (only out of state with my UT/AZ permits). I know what happens to my judgement when I drink, apparently this guy didn’t.

Sounds like you did the right thing OP. Everyone is alive to talk about it.