Taser/Spray Question

[hey_scooter]

Protip: Ensure your OC spray isn't flammable upon usage of a Taser/ECD. Most departments have figured this out, and a few have figured it out the hard way...

[Redemption]

I have never seen the C2 in use, and nobody I know carries one. The X26 is still the industry standard.

If you get the large O.C. dispenser, they make drop leg holsters for it.

That really says something that no one is using them.

I too, liked the stream OC for the reason given; the farther away the bad guy is when I utilized OC, the better. In an open area, I can see where your aim is more important. In a closed area, such as a custody facility where I worked as a supervisor, I can attest one doesn't have to be directly sprayed for it too work. There was many a time when OC was used in a module and I and others in the hallway 30' away felt the effects.

Re OC not having an effect on those under the influence, we had a long time inmate who was not under the influence of anything, but had been sprayed so often during his time in custody that it didn't bother him. He would swipe it off his bald head with his hand, lick it and as for more.

Now as a retired leo, I have been unable to find any store that sells a stream OC to public. I've been told its for le and security only. I don't know if that is correct, but that's been my experience. I would love to be able to buy the stream for my immediate family members.

Whatever form you obtain, you might want to consider buying the one that is a combo OC/CS (It might be CN as I've been gone too long to recall. Based on incidents at Twin Towers, it worked well. Due to our older ventilation system at CJ, we couldn't use it since we couldn't shut off various areas of the ventilation system. When I utilized 26 cans of OC in one smaller module, the effects were felt in Main Control located downstairs on the opposite side of the jail.

I dont remember what the rules are on CS, i think there was something that was glossed over quickly about how most companies wont let you use it or something but I dont remember for sure.

Protip: Ensure your OC spray isn't flammable upon usage of a Taser/ECD. Most departments have figured this out, and a few have figured it out the hard way...

Yeah lol they talked about that in class. Oil based OC's are prone to it I guess.

[MrEd]

My advice is don't buy anything until you have enough jobs that cover everything else .

Most companies will not allow you to use anything that is not covered by their policies & procedures .

As to the insurance co. that cover these things look for corporate liability insurance , most contractors get them specific to their industry so get an insurance agent .

Your overseas deployment does not count towards EP training , some companies do see it favorably some don't .

I have insurance coverage over Loyd's of London because that is what I need , your needs will be different I am sure . If you have any questions feel free to shoot me a PM and I will try to answer as best I can .

[Redemption]

My advice is don't buy anything until you have enough jobs that cover everything else .

Most companies will not allow you to use anything that is not covered by their policies & procedures .

As to the insurance co. that cover these things look for corporate liability insurance , most contractors get them specific to their industry so get an insurance agent .

Your overseas deployment does not count towards EP training , some companies do see it favorably some don't .

I have insurance coverage over Loyd's of London because that is what I need , your needs will be different I am sure . If you have any questions feel free to shoot me a PM and I will try to answer as best I can .

Agreed on equipment. At this phase Im more so info gathering, with the exception of service weapon and holster (I refuse to qualify on a glock) I have never been able to get a comfortable high rest on one and that is what my school uses to qualify (also because I am a lefty)

I chose common caliber/ brand Springfield XD in .40S&W and a level 3 retention holster

I am probably pretty likely to end up on patrol or post for awhile because I am fairly far out of LA unless I run across something fairly lucrative I wont be very eager to make the drive for EP work, unless it either is very lucrative or I find the particular job to be very interesting.

I know from reading that most companies carry a level of insurance and that I should be particularly aware of the insurance level of whomever I am working for if not contracted. Would you agree with this?

"Your overseas deployment does not count towards EP training , some companies do see it favorably some don't . "

I was being a smart *** there I shouldnt do that.

[MrEd]

The problem with recognizing prior service is that some companies are run by administrators or what I call pencil operators .

In the EP field there is a lot of jobs by recommendation , because local knowledge is an invaluable resource a lot of foreign or out of area teams hire one or two locals to augment their knowledge . I do that all the time .
How I find these people is by asking people that I have worked with before for a recommendation .

Those Jobs can be a few days to a few weeks and get you decent pay .

[esy]

I hate OC and would never willingly carry it. Only reason I'd carry it is if I was ordered to carry it by my supervisors.

I prefer the taser more for a non-lethal option to be carried on my belt. I'm more used to going hands on though and/or going with my straight stick.

[Redemption]

The problem with recognizing prior service is that some companies are run by administrators or what I call pencil operators .

In the EP field there is a lot of jobs by recommendation , because local knowledge is an invaluable resource a lot of foreign or out of area teams hire one or two locals to augment their knowledge . I do that all the time .
How I find these people is by asking people that I have worked with before for a recommendation .

Those Jobs can be a few days to a few weeks and get you decent pay .

I would tend to agree, of course also the ROE was very different in my "prior service" situation, this type of work is notably less violent by nature.

Today was the first day of EP training, part 2 is EP mobile. I found some interesting differences between EP estate work and post / patrol work. There are some distinct advantages but I can also see how EP work can be very high pressure.

On the local knowledge front I would tend to agree, though I do not think there are a lot of the types of people who can afford EP services coming to hang out in the Inland Empire.

I wouldnt be against it and the school that is training me, most of their field work is EP work in the Los Angeles area, primarily with celebrities and with some executives. Depending too I can see how EP event work could be a lot of fun, or even EP mobile work but I think the drive will kill me, and without a ton of connections for regular work the work I hear can be intermittent.

I hate OC and would never willingly carry it. Only reason I'd carry it is if I was ordered to carry it by my supervisors.

I prefer the taser more for a non-lethal option to be carried on my belt. I'm more used to going hands on though and/or going with my straight stick.

Out of curiosity why do you hate OC?

Im not going to lie the Liability portion of Stick use scares me slightly.

[esy]

Out of curiosity why do you hate OC?

Im not going to lie the Liability portion of Stick use scares me slightly.

The saying is that OC is good for two things; cops and dogs.

Even then, it's not good for all dogs. I've seen dogs lick it up like it was water. More often than not, OC doesn't really get going until someone is calmed down. When you spray someone who's adrenaline is going and actively fighting you, they won't feel a whole lot. You and your partners will though. Once the subject is cuffed up, they'll usually feel very uncomfortable.

Like I said, I'm more of a hands on and impact weapon kind of guy.

If you're worried about liability using a baton then don't use it. I know my use of force policy and I know when I'm good to go. If it worries you, then you're going to hesitate and you're going to get yourself hurt.

[Redemption]

The saying is that OC is good for two things; cops and dogs.

Even then, it's not good for all dogs. I've seen dogs lick it up like it was water. More often than not, OC doesn't really get going until someone is calmed down. When you spray someone who's adrenaline is going and actively fighting you, they won't feel a whole lot. You and your partners will though. Once the subject is cuffed up, they'll usually feel very uncomfortable.

Like I said, I'm more of a hands on and impact weapon kind of guy.

If you're worried about liability using a baton then don't use it. I know my use of force policy and I know when I'm good to go. If it worries you, then you're going to hesitate and you're going to get yourself hurt.

Never once in my life have I ever hesitated to adequately protect myself in an emergency. I am not likely to hesitate with anything, I am likely to act within the SOP of whatever company I end up hired on with. I was expressing my concerns about it right now at this stage, which is training.

For the record, I was not implying that you didnt know your use of force, or that you were out of turn in any way.

[MrEd]

Sadly we can not deploy an MEU with all the goodies on an EP Job and I very much doubt that you will be able to call Air Support !

[esy]

Never once in my life have I ever hesitated to adequately protect myself in an emergency. I am not likely to hesitate with anything, I am likely to act within the SOP of whatever company I end up hired on with. I was expressing my concerns about it right now at this stage, which is training.

For the record, I was not implying that you didnt know your use of force, or that you were out of turn in any way.

Not sure why you're face palming.

I know you didn't imply that I didn't know my use of force policy. I was stating it matter of factly. Part of knowing one's use of force policy is knowing liability.

I'm not saying that you hesitate. I'm saying that if you're worried about liability of deploying an impact weapon and the backlash you may receive from it; that is hesitation. If you have a tool on your belt that scares you, liability wise, you will hesitate to use it even if you've got the green light. Again, I'm not saying that you hesitate(d) in what you do. I'm going off of you saying that the liability of deploying it scares you, and if it does, you will hesitate to use it which will, in turn, get you hurt.

[hey_scooter]

Ironically the MEU now has EP capable dudes that they roll with so they probably could bring in CAS the next time they get into a jam.

[Redemption]

Sadly we can not deploy an MEU with all the goodies on an EP Job and I very much doubt that you will be able to call Air Support !

How awesome would that be though?

Sir, I have a trespass in the south east quadrant. Calling in a danger close air support mission at grid coordinates to follow....

Not sure why you're face palming.

I know you didn't imply that I didn't know my use of force policy. I was stating it matter of factly. Part of knowing one's use of force policy is knowing liability.

I'm not saying that you hesitate. I'm saying that if you're worried about liability of deploying an impact weapon and the backlash you may receive from it; that is hesitation. If you have a tool on your belt that scares you, liability wise, you will hesitate to use it even if you've got the green light. Again, I'm not saying that you hesitate(d) in what you do. I'm going off of you saying that the liability of deploying it scares you, and if it does, you will hesitate to use it which will, in turn, get you hurt.

Agreed regarding knowing ones use of force policy.

Ironically the MEU now has EP capable dudes that they roll with so they probably could bring in CAS the next time they get into a jam.

Really? That is kind of cool, truthfully it is kind of smart, it is good to have some cross training between the two entities.

[hey_scooter]

How awesome would that be though?

Really? That is kind of cool, truthfully it is kind of smart, it is good to have some cross training between the two entities.

Yes. I mean honestly the concept of PSD dudes calling in CAS seems suuuuuuper silly and would be the least likely to happen but the thought of it sounds pretty hilarious

[Redemption]

Yes. I mean honestly the concept of PSD dudes calling in CAS seems suuuuuuper silly and would be the least likely to happen but the thought of it sounds pretty hilarious

Knowledge is power, having more of it is always good but I agree it is an amusing thought.