Unconfigured Ad Widget

Collapse

Basic training attrition rates.

Collapse
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • #91
    tacticalcity
    I need a LIFE!!
    • Aug 2006
    • 10913

    I was Air Force, which you would think would have been easy, right? It wasn’t. 1/3 of my flight did not graduate with us. They were either kicked out or "recycled" (made to start over or at an earlier phase of training). They don't tell you what's going to happen to a guy when the remove him from your flight. They use it as a mind game…and it works. The last thing you want to have to go home and face you’re friends and family in disgrace. Can you imagine the comments? “You mean you couldn’t even hack the Air Force? How big of a wimp are you?”

    One recruit was pulled from our flight simply for making the lead TI (Training Instructor) laugh.

    Schaffer was a little guy. Must have gotten a height waiver just to get in. SSgt Vickers was like something right out of a cartoon about boot camp. Huge jaw, giant upper body, and tiny waist, and thick southern accent. About three weeks before graduation Vickers comes storming into our barracks and decides to have a spot inspection. We're all standing at at attention while he chews out one recruit after another. Then for the first time he finally sets in on Schaffer. He taps the brim of his "Smokey the Bear" hat into Schaffer’s forehead repeatedly while screaming at him at the top of lungs (pretty much the standard routine). Schaffer had not experienced it. I guess he was so little they left him alone. After all, it's not cool to picky on the littlest guy in the flight..not when there are so many other idiots you can torment. Schaffer leans back a little to avoid the tapping, VERY bad idea. Vickers just leans into him and keeps tapping away, yelling even louder. Schaffer leans back more. They cycle continues. Eventually Schaffer is leaning WAY back. It's like something out of cartoon, much like Vickers himself. So Vickers yells "Airman Schaffer, I want you to reach down into your drawers and tell me if you've got a pair!” So Schaffer follows the sergeant's order and replies, "Yes, Sir. Two big fat hairy ones, Sir". Vickers, the meanest of the mean, can't help himself. He laughs. He can't stop laughing. So much so that has to leave the room. A few minutes later Vickers returns, seriously pissed off that this little twit had caused him to break his military bearing...and yells "Schaffer, pack your sh__...you're outta here!" We never saw Schaffer again. I assume he was just recycled.

    I've heard people say boot camp in the Air Force was a cake walk. That was NOT my experience. SSGT Vickers was convinced it should be as hard as the higher ups would let him make it. It was his Air Force, and if we wanted to be part of it we were gonna bust our rears to prove we deserved to be there.

    Most of my "war stories" about the military happened in basic. SSGT Vickers is at the center of almost all them. He made the Drill Sergeant in Full Metal Jacket seem tame by comparison. His lines just as classic. I use them whenever possible.

    When you consider some of the places I was deployed, and that I had a pretty unusual career for my short four years of active duty service, the fact that basic training still manages to out shadow the rest of it really says something.

    Since somebody is bound to ask...I'll answer it here. The majority of people in the Air Force are Mechanics, Administration Staff, Medical Staff and never leave the base. I was part of a Mobile Aerial Port (actually it was a Aerial Mobility Port Flight but the term was short lived and nobody will recognize it). Our job was to setup and man temporary Air Bases for Special Operations (including our own but usually those from another service) whenever they were conducting missions in a theater were a base was needed but did not exist. As you can imagine, that's pretty much the norm these days. In such operations, the goal is to send as few people as possible, so we performed our own security (Air Base Ground Defense) and wore many, many hats. The roles that would normally be filled by Army Infantry in a full scale war, we performed ourselves. I'm not trying to say we were bad or anything...just that my experience differed from the typical Air Force career pretty drastically. My AFC (MOS) had very little to do with what I ended up doing all day long...and many people in the same AFC has much more boring careers. I spent a good part of my short career surround by special operations members of other services in the middle of nowhere. We bounced around the globe and never knew where would be from one week to the next. I loved it. I may not have been a bad mo fo, but I got to help the bad mo fos do their job...and I was proud of that. Then I was assigned to a desk job...which I hated. After being in a real world environment, a stateside assignment at a training base behind a desk just doesn't cut it. So instead of being a lifer, which i would have been if left me where I was...I decided to get out go to college instead. So there you go...my entire Air Force career in one paragraph.

    Ok, back on topic...if you are joining the Air Force because you think Basic Training is going to be easy then you're not smart enough to pass the academic side of it, so try the Navy!

    Seriously, Basic Training is going to be hard no matter what service you join. That is the entire point. It is supposed to be challenging. You have to prove you can cut it. You have to prove you won't panic under stress. You might get lucky and draw a kind hearted Instructor Staff, but it's highly unlikely. More often than not you will get instructors who will push your limits any way they can and play head games with you from the moment you show up until the moment you leave the base. That is their job.

    All this talk about how much tougher one is over the other is mostly people's egos. Inter-service rivalry trumps reality every time. There are differences. Marines place a higher emphasis on physical fitness; they pride themselves on it, though all will challenge you physically just not to that degree. Academically, they say the Air Force is the hardest, though I found it fairly easy. Never scored below a B on test, and that was because I was so sleep deprived I could barely keep my eyes open. Two scores below 75% and you get a ticket home and the questions are worded oddly enough to confuse just about anyone. When it comes to head games...all are going to be the biggest challenge of your life. I'm told the Army instruction manuals all have cartoon pictures to help recruits understand the concepts? Is that true? I doubt it. Probably just that old inter-service rivalry again. Though ASVAB scores do have to be a little higher to get into the Air Force, so you hear a lot of jokes about how dumb the Army is...totally untrue...but we say it anyways. You will be sleep deprived, you will be hungry (the first few weeks you get only a few bites of food per meal before you are rushed out the door, you will be stressed out, you will be facing challenges you can’t possibly imagine, you will have people in your face like you've never experienced before all day long and for no good reason, and you’re going to have to keep it together. When you’re done, you will have earned the right to wear the uniform.

    Is it worth it? You bet your a__!
    Last edited by tacticalcity; 10-30-2009, 4:13 PM.

    Comment

    • #92
      phroggunner
      Member
      • Sep 2009
      • 225

      Originally posted by tacticalcity
      So Vickers yells "Airman Schaffer, I want you to reach down into your drawers and tell me if you've got a pair!” So Schaffer follows the sergeant's order and replies, "Yes, Sir. Two big fat hairy ones, Sir". Vickers, the meanest of the mean, can't help himself. He laughs. He can't stop laughing. So much so that has to leave the room. A few minutes later Vickers returns, seriously pissed off that this little twit had caused him to break his military bearing...and yells "Schaffer, pack your sh__...you're outta here!" We never saw Schaffer again. I assume he was just recycled.
      Once they found out he had a pair, they sent him to the Marines. Mystery solved
      Last edited by phroggunner; 10-30-2009, 7:52 PM.

      Comment

      • #93
        phroggunner
        Member
        • Sep 2009
        • 225

        Originally posted by dwa
        ready your history the army has done more amphibious operations than the Marine Corps, the army has also done many joint operations so maybe you could drop the indoctrination crap?
        No worries brother, just going tit for tat with the propaganda

        Comment

        • #94
          usmcchet9296
          CGSSA Rimfire Coordinator
          • Feb 2008
          • 1834

          Originally posted by CavTrooper
          So I guess if youre worried about basic training being too tough, you might wanna try the Marine Corps or the Air Force, seems that their basic training is the easiest to pass!
          Ha ha fookin ha ha
          John P. Hermesmeyer
          U.S.M.C. 1992 to 1996 0311 5th Marines
          Current location: Camp Living room 1st Recline Div.Now in Texas
          sigpic
          Visit http://www.cawheelburners.com
          In memory of my friend Officer Ryan Bonaminio Riverside PD. Gone but not forgotten.

          Comment

          • #95
            usmcchet9296
            CGSSA Rimfire Coordinator
            • Feb 2008
            • 1834

            Originally posted by CavTrooper
            According to the Coast Gaurd recruiter I spoke with, anyone who joins will go through their boot camp/basic training regardless of thier prior service, does this mean that the Coast Guard is just as hard as the Marine Corps?
            Not really
            prior service go thru a "bootcamp" but it isnt like the bootcamp non priors go thru
            John P. Hermesmeyer
            U.S.M.C. 1992 to 1996 0311 5th Marines
            Current location: Camp Living room 1st Recline Div.Now in Texas
            sigpic
            Visit http://www.cawheelburners.com
            In memory of my friend Officer Ryan Bonaminio Riverside PD. Gone but not forgotten.

            Comment

            • #96
              cgseanp1
              Veteran Member
              • Dec 2008
              • 4651

              Originally posted by usmcchet9296
              Not really
              prior service go thru a "bootcamp" but it isnt like the bootcamp non priors go thru
              It's called pitstop, or at least that is what it was called. It was 2 or 4 weeks, can't remember exactly.

              Comment

              • #97
                anthonyca
                Calguns Addict
                • May 2008
                • 6316

                Originally posted by dwa
                you didn't think that basic for air conditioner guys to be like ranger school did you?
                No. I thought it would be basic that the guys went through before the pc days and girls in army.
                https://www.facebook.com/pages/Union...70812799700206

                Originally posted by Wherryj
                I am a physician. I am held to being "the expert" in medicine. I can't fall back on feigned ignorance and the statement that the patient should have known better than I. When an officer "can't be expected to know the entire penal code", but a citizen is held to "ignorance is no excuse", this is equivalent to ME being able to sue my patient for my own malpractice-after all, the patient should have known better, right?

                Comment

                • #98
                  dwa
                  Senior Member
                  • Apr 2008
                  • 2452

                  Originally posted by anthonyca
                  No. I thought it would be basic that the guys went through before the pc days and girls in army.
                  you went with a pog mos and were surprised when you had a pog basic. unless your 80 ill willing to bet there were women in the army before you went through.
                  Last edited by dwa; 11-02-2009, 3:28 PM.
                  sigpic

                  Comment

                  • #99
                    4thSBCT
                    Banned
                    • Mar 2009
                    • 2047

                    Originally posted by tacticalcity
                    Seriously, Basic Training is going to be hard no matter what service you join. All this talk about how much tougher one is over the other is mostly people's egos. Inter-service rivalry trumps reality every time. There are differences. I could barely keep my eyes open.
                    I don't buy this. If the training isn't tougher than why don't I see females doing 12 milers...I've had friends in other services *cough* air force, who said they were woken up to nice peaceful music.....
                    Last edited by 4thSBCT; 11-02-2009, 2:16 PM.

                    Comment

                    • tacticalcity
                      I need a LIFE!!
                      • Aug 2006
                      • 10913

                      Originally posted by 4thSBCT
                      I don't buy this. If the training isn't tougher than why don't I see females doing 12 milers...I've had friends in other services *cough* air force, who said they were woken up to nice peaceful music.....
                      Did you score too low on our ASVAB to get into the Air Force and have a little resentment you need to work out? Please, that is total nonsense. Your comment has ZERO basis in reality...just like my low ASVAB score comment about you probably has no basis in reality. Check the inter-service rivalry at the door. These kids need to know what to expect. If they join the Air Force expecting tea and crumpets in the morning they will wash out. You're not doing them any favors lying to them.

                      Basic was a giant mind game, and it wasn't an easy one. That said it was totally worth it.

                      For those of you considering joining the military...do it. No matter which branch of service you join, you won't regret it. You'll be proud of it for the rest of your life. You'll make friends you'll talk to for the rest of your life. I’ve been the best man at more military buddy’s weddings than I can count, and most long after we got out. You'll have really great stories you tell over and over again for the rest of your life. As much as I tease my buddies who were in other services, I totally respect and admire them for having served...and their experiences were as cool as or cooler than mine. None of my friends regretted having served, and that includes those who served in combat.

                      It won't be easy, but it won't be nearly as hard as you imagine it will be either. Basic training ends before you know it, and the rest of the military is NOTHING like basic training. At least, not in the Air Force. Never had anyone scream at me once I left basic training, and I consider many of the NCOs I served under close personal friends to this day. The Air Force has some pretty snazzy dorms (though for the first two years of my enlistment I never saw my dorm room because I was constantly traveling overseas). Most of the time you get your own room once you hit your first permanent duty station. Rarely are you required to share a dorm room anymore. My Dorm at Luke, AFB was as nice (only smaller) than most of the apartments I've lived in since. It made my college dorm room look like a dump. Oh, and comparatively speaking our chow halls are first rate. If you're lucky you'll get to travel somewhere cool. At the very least you will get out of your hometown. Odds are it will be the best time of your life.

                      Keep an open mind about what career field you’ll get, and where you’ll be stationed. No matter what your recruiter promises, those are extremely flexible. A computer makes the final decision, and the computer doesn’t give a damn what you want. Every job matters, and the better your ASVAB score the greater the chances you’ll get a good job that has a civilian counter part you would actually want to do…so study hard. I was supposed to work on A10 Warthogs, didn't happen. Your duty assignment is random, aside from the fact that they intentionally get you as far away from home as they can…when possible. So don’t expect to visit Mom on the weekends. Most people are allowed to PCS (transfer to a new duty station) upon completing their first four years, in my case I was transferred after being at McGuire for only two. So if you don't like your first duty station, don't worry...it is not forever.

                      If you have the chance to go to college first, and serve as an officer I recommend it. College ROTC will help, so do it. Those I know who earned a commission seemed to enjoy their time in the military more, and lot more of them chose to stay in for 20+ years than my friends who chose to enlist. If I had it to do over again that is how I would do it. Live and learn.
                      Last edited by tacticalcity; 11-02-2009, 3:37 PM.

                      Comment

                      • 5hundo
                        Banned
                        • Jun 2008
                        • 2210

                        Originally posted by 4thSBCT
                        I don't buy this. If the training isn't tougher than why don't I see females doing 12 milers...I've had friends in other services *cough* air force, who said they were woken up to nice peaceful music.....
                        Yeah, I got woken up to "Battery" by Metallica one morning...

                        That's a lovely ballad...

                        Seriously...

                        ...although, we did have lobster tails for dinner one night. I'll confess to that.

                        Comment

                        • professionalcoyotehunter
                          Banned
                          • Nov 2008
                          • 12805

                          There still are no women rangers.

                          Comment

                          • dwa
                            Senior Member
                            • Apr 2008
                            • 2452

                            Originally posted by 4thSBCT
                            I don't buy this. If the training isn't tougher than why don't I see females doing 12 milers...I've had friends in other services *cough* air force, who said they were woken up to nice peaceful music.....
                            i thought they had to do 12 milers just slower or something like that, i can remember but wasn't it something like 12 miles @ 15 min pace was the universal standard for rucking with combat arms and associates of course thinking it was a joke?
                            sigpic

                            Comment

                            • dwa
                              Senior Member
                              • Apr 2008
                              • 2452

                              Originally posted by professionalcoyotehunter
                              There still are no women rangers.
                              well ya because women are not capable of doing all jobs, i had excellent air support provided by females and ive had crappy air support by guys. they are not capable of doing the more physical jobs, thats why theres 2 pt tests to make it less obvious to the uninformed the discrepancy.
                              sigpic

                              Comment

                              • professionalcoyotehunter
                                Banned
                                • Nov 2008
                                • 12805

                                That is one of the many reasons.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                UA-8071174-1