Biden Administration Issues Final Rule to Close "Gun-Show Loophole"

[Tere_Hanges]

Does this apply to 03FFL C&R holders buying a gun in another state from a private party?

[AlmostHeaven]

LOL, how does a 450 (!) page rule clarify ANYTHING?

Yes. The rule clarifies that the Biden administration hates gun owners and wishes to kill gun culture by severely threatening the seamless sale of private collections.

If I can be arrested and put in jail for violating this "Rule" then it ain't a rule, it's a law. And last time I checked my pocket Constitution the only body that can make law is Congress.

So **** Biden and anyone that goes along with this.

Administrative agency bloat has turned presidents into chief legislators, and it threatens our way of life.

i will admit there are probably gunshow people who without licences buy/trade and sell/trade guns they may aquire just for the purpose of flipping

but reading deeper it seems to not really affect the typical person who has a gun and for whatever reason just wants to sell it to another resident of their state

I have a collapsed bridge in the Chesapeake Bay to sell anyone who believes that Democrats will enforce this rule reasonably instead of targeting everyone. Recall the "zero-tolerance" FFL paperwork policy and how the Biden administration has shut down more dealers than the Obama and Trump administrations combined.

[WingDings]

Since private party transactions are already required to be done through an FFL01, is it safe to assume that this new rule change does not really affect anything here in CA?

[Dan_Eastvale]

This does not apply to private party face to face parking lot sales and purchases here in Utah I assume.

No "dealers" involved.

[Fyathyrio]

Yes, it does. AFT is the one who decides if you made the deal for profit, AFT is the one who decides if you have entered into the business of selling firearms. Maybe you will eventually win the court case . . . if you survive the 4AM raid.

I read that the bastard Cornyn wants to introduce a resolution saying this is unconstitutional, when it was his law he pushed that allowed the definitions of dealer and profit to be "re-imagined."

[Rickybillegas]

This is true, and we have Abraham Lincoln and the Civil War for starting us down that road. The war established that the states did not have the right to withdraw from the union (which was probably a good thing in the long run) and further established federal government sovereignty over the states 9which at the time was through force of arms and now through the force of laws). From that point, the bureaucratic state was born, and has been growing ever since. Lost in all of this was the essential preamble to the Constitution that the States and the People created and were to be sovereigns over the federal government, at least with respect to state issues and individual rights.

That was the unfortunate by product of the civil war. We had to get rid of slavery and we needed to keep the union. But you're right. The results are the loss of freedom from a tyrannical government.

Of course it can work both ways, as in the 2nd amendment and free speech.
Glad for the 14th amendment on this. OTOH a gigantic amorphous deep state with the federal gov. being the largest employer in the united states.
A tragedy.

[AlmostHeaven]

This does not apply to private party face to face parking lot sales and purchases here in Utah I assume.

No "dealers" involved.

The entire purpose of this new administrative rule is that the ATF now holds massively expanded authority to decide whether a seller qualifies as a dealer in need of an FFL! Even a single for-profit sale could satisfy the conditions, subject to examination of "other evidence."

Yes, it does. AFT is the one who decides if you made the deal for profit, AFT is the one who decides if you have entered into the business of selling firearms. Maybe you will eventually win the court case . . . if you survive the 4AM raid.

I read that the bastard Cornyn wants to introduce a resolution saying this is unconstitutional, when it was his law he pushed that allowed the definitions of dealer and profit to be "re-imagined."

F*ck the treasonous Republicans who folded like wet noodles after the Uvalde, TX shooting and enacted the Bipartisan Safer Communities Act.

[snailbait]

“And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand?... The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If...if...We didn't love freedom enough. And even more – we had no awareness of the real situation.... We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.”

[pdsmith505]

This is the danger of compromise on 2A issues. The "cake" comic fits right in here.

Just remember who all voted to change the definition of a firearms dealer in law...

House votes: https://clerk.house.gov/Votes/2022299

Senate votes: https://www.senate.gov/legislative/L...17_2_00242.htm

[AlmostHeaven]

This is the danger of compromise on 2A issues. The "cake" comic fits right in here.

Just remember who all voted to change the definition of a firearms dealer in law...

House votes: https://clerk.house.gov/Votes/2022299

Senate votes: https://www.senate.gov/legislative/L...17_2_00242.htm

Vote out the Republican backstabbers in primary elections. A particularly noteworthy race, may Brandon Herrera defeat Tony Gonzales in May.

[natman]

Here's the ATF's explanation:

https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulations/docs/undefined/finalrule2022r-17f-questionsandanswerspdf/download

Q. What does it mean to be "engaged in the business" as a wholesale or retail dealer?
A. A person is "engaged in the business" when the person devotes time, attention, and labor to dealing in firearms as a regular course of trade or business to predominantly earn a profit through the repetitive purchase and resale of firearms, but such term shall not include a person who makes occasional sales, exchanges, or purchases of firearms for the enhancement of a personal collection or for a hobby, or who sells all or part of the person's personal collection of firearms.

There is no hard and fast line to cross; it depends on the seller's intent to make a profit. It doesn't matter if you happen to sell the gun for more than you paid for it; the determining factor is whether or not you bought the gun with the intent to make a profit, whether you actually made one or not.

Q. If a person sells their personal firearm and actually makes a profit, does that equate to being engaged in the business as a dealer requiring a license?
A. No. A person actually "selling at a profit does not equate to engaging in the business" because a showing of actual profit, whether or not expenses or inflation are considered, is not required to be engaged in the business. Rather, it is the predominant intent of obtaining pecuniary gain from sale or disposition of firearms that matters.

Bear in mind that this is going to be interpreted by the "zero tolerance" Biden administration, but as written it will not prohibit occasional sales from a personal collection.

[Fyathyrio]

A couple lawyers break this new rule down in this video. TL/DW = All y'all are now illegal, unlicensed gun dealers.

[Sgt Raven]

A couple lawyers break this new rule down in this video. TL/DW = All y'all are now illegal, unlicensed gun dealers.

FIFY


FYI; you should list the YouTube channel name if you're just posting a link to a video.

[DolphinFan]

We can only hope the SCOTUS releases the decision early that will reverse the Chevron Defense.
ELECTED LEGISLATORS make laws, Appointed Administrators Do NOT.
They MAY make internal policy for employees, but they should have NO AUTHORITY over making or enforcing laws.

[Fyathyrio]

My, aren't you the arrogant one. No, you did not "FIFY." I posted it exactly how I wanted it.