Leaving your loaded CCW gun in the car.

[Tripper]

If I leave my car to go into a restricted area, ie bar, Fed bldg, etc. My CCW gun goes into my gun safe cabled to the interior of my trunk. Since my permit is restricted for business use, I also unload the gun/remove the mag if I'm done working for the day. This make sense to me, though I may be over doing it.

Certainly nothing wrong with any if that (as far as my opinion)



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[Tripper]

Leaving your loaded CCW gun in the car.

The discussion is about a gun left in an unoccupied locked vehicle. Once you exit the car, you are no longer 'carrying' the gun so CCW PC & exemptions no longer apply. It doesn't matter if you're gone for 10 seconds to go to a bathroom or gone to vegas for 10 days, you are not "CCW"ing it.

As far as I can see there are no laws that cover leaving a loaded gun in a locked car, so there's nothing one can be charged with.

Wrong
PC doesn't say "while you are carrying your ccw" anywhere
The PC I mentioned earlier (I think 26555) exempts ccw holders from 25400 In it's entirety, saying nothing whatsoever about on your person or while in vehicle or anything else

Edit: I don't think it's 26555, it has a bunch of 5s I think
I'll also add "as I recall"

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[Eagle Eyes]

That is NOT correct.


You are exempted from having a loaded weapon when it is CONCEALED on you not in your vehicle.

CCW laws do not shield you from loaded weapon in a vehicle when it is not concealed on your person (one of the Cs in the CCW). The CCW permit are not issued to a vehicle but to a person and the exemptions reflect that. A PERSON with a CCW is excempted from having a concealed and loaded weapon on their person, that is what the CCW is for.

Here is a situation that alot of careless CCW holders face when not careful:

You park your vehicle and need to go someplace where CCW is not allowed (Federal Court House) and decide to stash it under your seat. So you pull it out from concealment and put it under your seat. Well you did not notice someone was getting into their vehicle parked next to yours at the same time and they see your firearm exposed.

Guess what you just brandished a firearm and depending on the mood of the LEO they could charge you or let you go with a warning. If they charge you there is a good chance you can kiss your CCW permit goodbye.


Same thing happens alot with CCW holders who remove their handguns to store them in a trunk and someone sees them with the weapon in hand. They too can and have been charged with brandishing a weapon in public.


A CCW does not protect you from having loaded firearm in a vehicle when it is not concealed on your person. The laws for CCW permits do not state "capable of being concealed on your person, glove box, trunk, under your seat, the bush you are standing next to etc." but specifically on your person.

In the State of California a VEHICLE is considered a instrument of TRANSPORTATION not your residence and not a storage unit. While parked on public property you can not have a loaded firearm stored in a vehicle period, occupied or not. If it is parked on your own private property you can do whatever you want and when parked on other peoples private property you need their permission to do whatever you want. The law treats your storing a loaded firearm in a vehicle no different than you walking down the public street with a locked container and a loaded firearm inside.

Let's say you have your vehicle parked on the public street with a loaded firearm inside a locked trunk. You forget it is street sweeping day and your vehicle gets towed. The impound lot is allowed by law to do a inventory of your vehicle so that later on they can not be blamed for stealing stuff. They open the trunk and guess what they see and guess who they call to come over to the impound yard.

The way the laws are written the registered owner will get arrested for having a loaded firearm in a vehicle, CCW or not, because they are the ones held responsible for anything in their vehicle.

Just do some searching and you will find cases like those I listed above and see what happened.

[Tripper]

Ok
I'm not gonna argue
Suffice it to say
YOU ARE WRONG
YES CCW DOES EXEMPT
PROVE ME WRONG


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[Tripper]

25655. Section 25400 does not apply to, or affect, the carrying of
a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon
the person by a person who is authorized to carry that weapon in a
concealed manner pursuant to Chapter 4 (commencing with Section
26150).






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[Tripper]

25400, again, says nothing about must be concealed on you


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[Tripper]

Leaving your loaded CCW gun in the car.

You must have been told that by a ccw instructor
I was gonna say cop, but the ones I asked agree with me surprisingly, I even presented essentially your scenario

Please provide a single case where you are claiming there are plenty of where this has occurred

I'm thinking your scenario is possible, but, is not likely to stick anywhere, except possibly LA, maybe even the weirdos in SF.

I'm also thinking, if there is a chance of that, its a risk I will take.

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[Tripper]

That is NOT correct.

You are exempted from having a loaded weapon when it is CONCEALED on you not in your vehicle.

where does it say that?

CCW laws do not shield you from loaded weapon in a vehicle when it is not concealed on your person (one of the Cs in the CCW).

yes it does, location is irrelevant

The CCW permit are not issued to a vehicle but to a person and the exemptions reflect that. A PERSON with a CCW is excempted from having a concealed and loaded weapon on their person, that is what the CCW is for.

sort of true, but laws apply to people, kind of hard to take a car to jail

Here is a situation that alot of careless CCW holders face when not careful:

i wont disagree with that, there are a small subset of CCW holders that are careless, just like a subset of any other group being careless

You park your vehicle and need to go someplace where CCW is not allowed (Federal Court House) and decide to stash it under your seat. So you pull it out from concealment and put it under your seat. Well you did not notice someone was getting into their vehicle parked next to yours at the same time and they see your firearm exposed.

Guess what you just brandished a firearm and depending on the mood of the LEO they could charge you or let you go with a warning. If they charge you there is a good chance you can kiss your CCW permit goodbye.

you need to look up the elements of the crime of 'brandishing'
i'd venture to say, an LEO would see that as how it is, and at most tell the guy reporting that seeing a gun is not brandishing.

your of course welcome to call the police on all those police walking around brandishing firearms on a daily basis

Same thing happens alot with CCW holders who remove their handguns to store them in a trunk and someone sees them with the weapon in hand. They too can and have been charged with brandishing a weapon in public.

i doubt that happens very often. if you could show me just 3 instances, I'd be quite surprised

A CCW does not protect you from having loaded firearm in a vehicle when it is not concealed on your person. The laws for CCW permits do not state "capable of being concealed on your person, glove box, trunk, under your seat, the bush you are standing next to etc." but specifically on your person.

see above

In the State of California a VEHICLE is considered a instrument of TRANSPORTATION not your residence and not a storage unit.

i think the state and LEO in general, consider the person with the keys to a car, is in control of the car, even if not 25655 exempts a CCW permit holder from 25400

While parked on public property you can not have a loaded firearm stored in a vehicle period, occupied or not.

yes you can

If it is parked on your own private property you can do whatever you want

absolutely

and when parked on other peoples private property you need their permission to do whatever you want.

for the most part I suppose

The law treats your storing a loaded firearm in a vehicle no different than you walking down the public street with a locked container and a loaded firearm inside.

not quite, the law requires a weapon 'capable of being concealed' to be locked up while in public
a CCW is exempt from needing that locked case with firearm inside
again, you might want to look at the exemptions to some such laws, like PC 25655

Let's say you have your vehicle parked on the public street with a loaded firearm inside a locked trunk. You forget it is street sweeping day and your vehicle gets towed. The impound lot is allowed by law to do a inventory of your vehicle so that later on they can not be blamed for stealing stuff. They open the trunk and guess what they see and guess who they call to come over to the impound yard.

yep, they'd call me, because that serial returns that gun as a CCW gun on MY permit
nothing illegal here, I might have paperwork and such to get it released back to me, but no crime has occurred

The way the laws are written the registered owner will get arrested for having a loaded firearm in a vehicle, CCW or not, because they are the ones held responsible for anything in their vehicle.

sorta what I said earlier, the state considers your car as being under your control, thus you are responsible for anything in it, say for example a CCW gun, you cant have it both ways

Just do some searching and you will find cases like those I listed above and see what happened.

I think you should do some searching, i think you will find it hard to provide examples of such (not impossible, just difficult)

good luck


I will say, i have a lock box cabled under my seat for this purpose, depending on where I park, not because of law, but because i want to make it a bit harder for a thief

[Eagle Eyes]

Do you actually READ not only all the P.C.'s you post but what you actually post yourself??

You act like the liberal media who takes apart comments and cherry picks out of context select parts that makes their arguement fly.


DO you reliaze that what you have posted means your statement is that it would be legal for open and loaded carry with a CCW????? You are making statements that the CCW permit regulations and laws do not mean you have to carry concealed AND you can have a loaded firearm at anytime in anyplace in any carry mode if you have a CCW permit.

I would laugh at your statement but I see now you are not joking but actually seriously believe what you are posting.




You obviously have no clue what you are talking about and are just trolling for a arguement with posters. If you want to make debate then do it on the entire context of what someone posts not just take out certain parts that go with whatever ridiculous statement you wish to make.


Any liberal can do that it takes no effort or brain power to do so. The sad thing is someone MIGHT believe you and get arrested because of the utter clueless statements made by you just to argue with posters that disagree with you.

[Librarian]

Do you actually READ not only all the P.C.'s you post but what you actually post yourself??

You act like the liberal media who takes apart comments and cherry picks out of context select parts that makes their arguement fly.


DO you reliaze that what you have posted means your statement is that it would be legal for open and loaded carry with a CCW????? You are making statements that the CCW permit regulations and laws do not mean you have to carry concealed AND you can have a loaded firearm at anytime in anyplace in any carry mode if you have a CCW permit.

I would laugh at your statement but I see now you are not joking but actually seriously believe what you are posting.




You obviously have no clue what you are talking about and are just trolling for a arguement with posters. If you want to make debate then do it on the entire context of what someone posts not just take out certain parts that go with whatever ridiculous statement you wish to make.


Any liberal can do that it takes no effort or brain power to do so. The sad thing is someone MIGHT believe you and get arrested because of the utter clueless statements made by you just to argue with posters that disagree with you.

Is there any chance you might edit that to include the post information to which you are responding? I cannot discern what point you are trying to make.

[9M62]

Take it for what you will:

Yes, it's legal to leave your loaded pistol in your car if you have a CCW. As you know, this isn't a discussion on if its "wise" or not, it's a discussion as to if its legal.

Sometimes unforeseen things happen where you need to leave your pistol behind, in the vehicle, and that's life. In my case, I place it in my trunk -- usually under the mat where the spare tire is.

As far as the transportation issue -- you aren't transporting when the vehicle is parked, and if you were driving, it's considered in your control if its in the passenger compartment of the car, and thus, possession, and since you have a CCW, it's legal.

And no, you can't be found "guilty" of something if someone broke in and stole it. That's on them, not on you.

Try to plan ahead, but realize that if something comes up where you need to leave the gun in the car, you can do so without being unlawful.

[lorax3]

My biggest concern with the loaded and concealed exemptions is how the "as authorized" plays into it. We will just use the loaded PC as the example in this case.

26010. Section 25850 does not apply to the carrying of any handgun
by any person as authorized pursuant to Chapter 4 (commencing with
Section 26150) of Division 5.

So you are exempt from carrying a loaded firearm or a loaded firearm in a vehicle so long as you carry it "as authorized pursuant to [..] Section 26150."

What does section 26150 authorize you to do? [emphasis added]

26150. (a) When a person applies for a license to carry a pistol,
revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the
person

26150 authorizes you to apply for a license to carry. If you leave a loaded firearm in a vehicle while you go grocery shopping, is the firearm still in a manner as authorized by your license to carry?

Can you be arrested for carrying an illegal substance if the substance is in your vehicle and you are not? (Possession vs carry interpretations notwithstanding)

I don't know.

[mej16489]

My biggest concern with the loaded and concealed exemptions is how the "as authorized" plays into it. We will just use the loaded PC as the example in this case.

The 'as authorized' bit added in 2009ish was clearly a distinction between Licenses to Carry Exposed and Licenses to Carry Concealed. Prior to that language change, it was indeed legal to Loaded Open Carry (LOC) a handgun for one which was licensed to carry concealed.

[lorax3]

The 'as authorized' bit added in 2009ish was clearly a distinction between Licenses to Carry Exposed and Licenses to Carry Concealed. Prior to that language change, it was indeed legal to Loaded Open Carry (LOC) a handgun for one which was licensed to carry concealed.

Right. Although that language change may have other effects, even if the original intent was just further open carry restrictions. It demonstrates there is at least 1 other method of carry that is not authorized by having an LTC.

In any event, that does indicate that a loaded non-concealed firearm should also be illegal in a vehicle, even with a valid LTC.

….Going to play my own devil's advocate for a moment

26150 authorizes you to apply for a license to carry. If you leave a loaded firearm in a vehicle while you go grocery shopping, is the firearm still in a manner as authorized by your license to carry?

I think you are putting too much into the word "carry". You don't have to actually be "carrying" the firearm to be considered carrying it. Just look at 25850.

25850. (a) A person is guilty of carrying a loaded firearm when the person carries a loaded firearm on the person or in a vehicle while
in any public place or on any public street in an incorporated city
or in any public place or on any public street in a prohibited area
of unincorporated territory.

Let us pretend you do NOT have an LTC. Scenario: You are inside a grocery store and the police in the parking lot end up legally searching your vehicle and find a loaded handgun.

Will they charge you with PC 25850, the carrying of a loaded firearm?

Absolutely.

[Tripper]

Ok eagle, you go with what you feel
Good luck


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