Leaving your loaded CCW gun in the car.

[ElDub1950]

I'm not finding anything in the code that applies to this.

I'll often put my carry gun in a pocket holster in the console when driving. Sometimes if I make a short stop and get out of the car, I leave the gun in the locked car.

It's not in my immediate control, so seems that technically it's no longer a CCW.

At the same time, the vehicle is stopped, unoccupied and locked, but I guess this could fall under the PC for transporting a firearm and have to be unloaded and locked in the trunk (secure compartment).

But in some cases, specifically home owners insurance, items left in your car are considered the same as items in your home but this likely has no legal implication.

So I've confused myself, can I leave my loaded CCW gun locked in the car for a few minutes?

[Chris_in_OC]

I wouldn't.
Car doesn't posses the same domicile status as your home does, not considered private property.
Your liability would be unlimited if it ended up in criminal hands.

[Loopwell]

El Dub, I don't know the laws on this, but it doesn't sound like a good idea at all. My biggest fear is your car is broken into and gun is no longer in your control.

[ElDub1950]

El Dub, I don't know the laws on this, but it doesn't sound like a good idea at all. My biggest fear is your car is broken into and gun is no longer in your control.

Sure, I understand the wisdom of not doing so .. the risk varies greatly depending on location ... just wanting to understand the legal side

[RoGee]

The whole idea of a carry gun is to have it on you when you need it. It's not going to do you any good in the car when you get out an use the ATM. I suggest getting a nice comfortable holster. If you don't like it on you while driving.....Welcome to the CCW world

[SolidStu]

When you are not in "immediate possession" of your CCW firearm, the basic laws of handgun transportation apply. Unloaded and in a locked container.

A loaded gun in a car is illegal unless it is your CCW gun. Your concealed carry gun. If you are not carrying it, the carrying laws don't apply. If you are in the car with it loaded and not locked away, you are carrying. If you are not in the car, then the opposite applies.

You can always take the risk, especially in quick in/out scenarios like a gas station, but there's always that crazy small chance that the worst case scenario can happen.

No, not an LEO finding out you left a loaded gun in your car. This is the scenario where you need your loaded gun and the 20 feet between you and your car become the longest 20 feet of your life.

[WASR10]

I locking box bolted to the car floor is a great thing to have. Since I can't carry while at work, I use mine daily.

[ElDub1950]

Again, this isn't an issue of the wisdom of leaving a gun in the car, and it's not a noob question, I've been carrying for a few years.

It's the semantics of: When a loaded gun is in an unoccupied vehicle, are you storing the gun in a vehicle (for which there are no PCs I can find) or are you transporting the gun (which is covered by the PC).

Some are on the side that it's storage and there's no law covering it and others believe it's transporting. I'm trying to find if there's somewhere in the PC or VC that covers it because I can't find anything.

If PC or VC don't discuss it, it's just another undefined gray area that could go either way, depending on a whole host of variables such as parked on a street or on private property.

[MisplacedTexan]

My understanding of "locked container" while transporting isn't defined. So a locked container can be as simple as a soft sided duffel bag w/ a lock through the zippers.

If you *need* to leave the gun in your car AND you have a CCW - a cheap lock & bag will suffice (remove mag & unchamber) Put bag in back seat out of reach and out of view (or trunk if you have one - I don't). That will satisfy I think the law and would be minimum of effort. AND easy enough to reload & rechamber.

I'm no lawyer, but seems to me that would satisfy the letter of the law?????

[CBR_rider]

If you are the operator of a vehicle (with a valid CCW), and you leave your loaded firearm inside your locked, parked vehicle (that no one else has access to), how is the handgun being transported without you being there?

I'll try to find some case law on this, I don't know of any off the top of my head (though of course that doesn't mean its not out there).

[Tincon]

Persons with a LTC are exempt from the PC prohibiting loaded or concealed firearms in public. I'm not sure what statutes you are worried about violating.

[ElDub1950]

If you are the operator of a vehicle (with a valid CCW), and you leave your loaded firearm inside your locked, parked vehicle (that no one else has access to), how is the handgun being transported without you being there?

I'll try to find some case law on this, I don't know of any off the top of my head (though of course that doesn't mean its not out there).

^^This is my gut feel, that it couldn't be considered transporting. Thanks for looking into this .. I'm still looking.

Persons with a LTC are exempt from the PC prohibiting loaded or concealed firearms in public. I'm not sure what statutes you are worried about violating.

^A concealed firearm has to be under your immediate control. A gun in an unoccupied car doesn't fall under LTC exemptions.

[Tincon]

^A concealed firearm has to be under your immediate control. A gun in an unoccupied car doesn't fall under LTC exemptions.

PC?

[Librarian]

^A concealed firearm has to be under your immediate control. A gun in an unoccupied car doesn't fall under LTC exemptions.

PC?

That is the real question - why do some believe this behavior is illegal?

As already noted, LTC exempts the holder from 'concealed in public' and 'loaded in public', with respect to weapons listed on the license. (See the FAQ in this forum, http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=388997)

Since this is so, with what violation would an LTC holder be charged for leaving his/her loaded, listed-on-the-license, handgun in his/her vehicle?

That question is distinct from the questions 'would YOU do that?' and 'is it the wisest course of action?'.

[CBR_rider]

^A concealed firearm has to be under your immediate control. A gun in an unoccupied car doesn't fall under LTC exemptions.

But if its not under YOUR immediate control (or anyone else's, for that matter),
who would be charged for the violations(if they were occurring in the first place....)?


As far as the PC for criminal storage of a firearm:

PC25100. (a) Except as provided in Section 25105, a person commits
the crime of "criminal storage of a firearm in the first degree" if
all of the following conditions are satisfied:
(1) The person keeps any loaded firearm within any premises that
are under the person's custody or control.
(2) The person knows or reasonably should know that a child is
likely to gain access to the firearm without the permission of the
child's parent or legal guardian, or that a person prohibited from
possessing a firearm or deadly weapon pursuant to state or federal
law is likely to gain access to the firearm.
(3) The child obtains access to the firearm and thereby causes
death or great bodily injury to the child or any other person, or the
person prohibited from possessing a firearm or deadly weapon
pursuant to state or federal law obtains access to the firearm and
thereby causes death or great bodily injury to himself or herself or
any other person.
(b) Except as provided in Section 25105, a person commits the
crime of "criminal storage of a firearm in the second degree" if all
of the following conditions are satisfied:
(1) The person keeps any loaded firearm within any premises that
are under the person's custody or control.
(2) The person knows or reasonably should know that a child is
likely to gain access to the firearm without the permission of the
child's parent or legal guardian, or that a person prohibited from
possessing a firearm or deadly weapon pursuant to state or federal
law is likely to gain access to the firearm.
(3) The child obtains access to the firearm and thereby causes
injury, other than great bodily injury, to the child or any other
person, or carries the firearm either to a public place or in
violation of Section 417, or the person prohibited from possessing a
firearm or deadly weapon pursuant to state or federal law obtains
access to the firearm and thereby causes injury, other than great
bodily injury, to himself or herself or any other person, or carries
the firearm either to a public place or in violation of Section 417.
(c) Except as provided in Section 25105, a person commits the
crime of "criminal storage of a firearm in the third degree" if the
person keeps any loaded firearm within any premises that are under
the person's custody or control and negligently stores or leaves a
loaded firearm in a location where the person knows, or reasonably
should know, that a child is likely to gain access to the firearm
without the permission of the child's parent or legal guardian,
unless reasonable action is taken by the person to secure the firearm
against access by the child.

A quick search didn't turn up anything regarding "premises," so I honestly don't know if that would include a vehicle. I wouldn't think so.... but I don't know. Personally, if someone left a loaded handgun in the backseat with a four year old who was found playing with it I could think of other charges to worry about writing a case for so it doesn't really matter to me.