80% lowers MERGED THREADS - please ask in here, not a new thread

[shaocaholica]

"No officer, that serialized firearm was manufactured before 7-1-18 and that's why it is not in any of your databases."

Street cop is not going to be looking up your serial in a DB. There are plenty of preventative measures not to have LE look up your SN in the first place.

[accel]

29181. Section 29180 does not apply to or affect any of the following:

(a) A firearm that has a serial number assigned to it pursuant to either Section 23910 or pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Part 1 of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto.

(b) A firearm made or assembled prior to December 16, 1968, that is not a handgun.

(c) A firearm which was entered into the centralized registry set forth in Section 11106 prior to July 1, 2018, as being owned by a specific individual or entity if that firearm has assigned to it a distinguishing number or mark of identification to that firearm by virtue of the department accepting entry of that firearm into the centralized registry.

(d) A firearm that has a serial number assigned to it pursuant to Chapter 53 of Title 26 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto.

(e) A firearm that is a curio or relic, or an antique firearm, as those terms are defined in Section 479.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations.

So it looks like you have to have it with either a state registered (or assigned) serial number or assigned by Federal Government serial number prior to 7-1-2018 to avoid having to apply for a state assigned serial number from the CA DOJ after 7-1-2018. So far, the only info I've seen on assigned serial numbers from the Federal Government involves FFL manufacturers. There are guidelines for private non-ffl individuals for marking and serialization for private non-business sales, but I haven't seen anywhere indicating this will comply with the "assigned" portion of the statute. This is because I haven't seen anywhere that shows how a private individual can get an "assigned" number from the Federal Government. Anyone have info on that? At this point, getting a Fed serial number seems to be preferred to getting a state assigned (CA registered) serial number.

May section (a) above mean that you can self assign the number and it will be valid if complies with ATF guidelines? Then it would match what 80% lowers sellers are claiming:

Machine it and assign serial number before the deadline _according_to_ATF_serial_number_requirements_:
your first, last name, city, state, caliber, ... ? Then you ae exempt?

[Whiterabbit]

How is self-assigned (but still listed/registered) any more palatable than assigned (listed/registered)? Seems you're just as screwed both ways.

as far as I am concerned, pandora's box is opened with 80's. when it comes to MAKING these things, we're the ones with the power now. half of us making 80's now have the prints and enough knowledge that, given enough time, could make crude (but functional) duplicates from aluminum blocks. God forbid that becomes needed.

With self assignation, I am in control of the digits and cost and timing. With engraving ability self serialization is fast and free and creative. Apply to the DOJ will cost money ($12? $25? $100? $10,000?), and take time (30 day turnaround to give you a SN? longer?)

self-serialization is infinitely more palatable than asking "my superiors in government" for "permission" to exercise what I was perfectly right to do on my own previously. And paying for that insult!

Registration is an easier pill to swallow when, if some of us are sitting on perfectly legal 80's, can turn them into functioning parts quickly if the need (whatever need) arises.

[Whiterabbit]

May section (a) above mean that you can self assign the number and it will be valid if complies with ATF guidelines? Then it would match what 80% lowers sellers are claiming:

Machine it and assign serial number before the deadline _according_to_ATF_serial_number_requirements_:
your first, last name, city, state, caliber, ... ? Then you ae exempt?

So, IF 29180 applies to you and you need an exception in 29181, item (c) can be helpful to study too. If CaDOJ accepts your marking, it doesn't even need to comply with US law.

That could be an enormous if. But still there.

[Whiterabbit]

Street cop is not going to be looking up your serial in a DB. There are plenty of preventative measures not to have LE look up your SN in the first place.

Then it doesn't need any markings at all in that case, because there will be no inspection. The "I live in the sticks" method.

I do expect that ALOT of rural californians will excercise this option. as would I if I lived in the sticks.

[Whiterabbit]

The Manufactures I have talked to (and engraved serial numbers for) say they just can not be a duplicate number (for that model and manufacture) and can contain letters but must end in a number.
Following these guidelines I've never heard of any being turned down.

Well, two of my 3 followed those guidelines (unless I got REALLY unlucky with the SN selection, but I doubt it), and all 3 were turned down.

Of course, I am not a manufacturer with a license nor are most of us. Just tinkers at home doing this for personal use.

[accel]

Well, two of my 3 followed those guidelines (unless I got REALLY unlucky with the SN selection, but I doubt it), and all 3 were turned down.

Of course, I am not a manufacturer with a license nor are most of us. Just tinkers at home doing this for personal use.

Did you get any info explaining what was wrong with the numbers?

[Whiterabbit]

Did you get any info explaining what was wrong with the numbers?

They rejected my application for a Firearm Ownership Report because "regulations were still being written for AB 2220 and delayed due to other safety priorities"

Same note on all 3 applications. No mention of what is in the images, the SNs, anything else. "Reject" status due to the regulations of AB 2220 not being implemented yet.

you should google AB 2220.

[shaocaholica]

So what are the mandatory fields on a pistol volreg? I'm trying to get the minimum amount of stuff engraved on my lowers. On a typical DROS I see these fields:

make
model
caliber
serial
other number

------

type
category
color
barrel length
frame/receiver only
new/used
FSD compliance
comment

I don't see any fields for place of manufacture. The whole volreg thing is confusing because before the new laws you didn't have to put any of this stuff on the gun at all and at a minimum just a serial.

[ACfixer]

Wow, if you want to make your head spin... read this thread.

[Ninety]

Wow, if you want to make your head spin... read this thread.

No kidding right ?

If there is a demand for laser engraving of serial numbers on 80's pm me or speak up.

Anaheim area. By the pond.

Sent from my HTC Desire 626s using Tapatalk

[ACfixer]

No kidding right ?

If there is a demand for laser engraving of serial numbers on 80's pm me or speak up.

So my understanding then... And what I tried to gather from this thread is that if I ever wanted my 80% to be an AW, it would have to be serialized and recorded before 1/1/17? In other words my 80% lowers I may or may not have now would have to be forever featureless if there is no record of my ownership with the Cal DOJ prior to this date? Would laser engraving be okay not being .005 deep?

Someone is probably going to flame me for not reading the thread well enough (which consists of a few merged threads) but I don't care, I read it all and my brain is fried so flame away. Get your jollies... I do not intend to, nor will I break any laws, so I am trying my best to preserve my 2nd amendment rights without landing afoul.

[Cokebottle]

Do 80% polymer receivers need a stainless steel insert with the serial number engraved or is that just for commercially manufactured firearms?

It's required for "home built" firearms under the new CA laws.

What about polymer lowers that were complete (and engraved) prior to the passage of the new law?

The requirement is that the stainless part be included in the manufacturing process.... aside from the fact that compliance is impossible due to the requirement that the plate by 3.7oz, which is larger and thicker than the sides of an AR magwell.

[target_shot]

UPDATE:

Called the DOJ. My applications have been pending for 54 days now...

I was told by Sharon that an VolReg application being submitted is sufficient evidence of ownership, it does not have to be approved by the end of the year.

Also, they now have a phone line for AW registration. The person I spoke to confirmed that registration would take place through the CRIS system, would go live on the 1st, and would cost $15 per session, not per firearm.

[9M62]

So my understanding then... And what I tried to gather from this thread is that if I ever wanted my 80% to be an AW, it would have to be serialized and recorded before 1/1/17? In other words my 80% lowers I may or may not have now would have to be forever featureless if there is no record of my ownership with the Cal DOJ prior to this date? Would laser engraving be okay not being .005 deep?

Someone is probably going to flame me for not reading the thread well enough (which consists of a few merged threads) but I don't care, I read it all and my brain is fried so flame away. Get your jollies... I do not intend to, nor will I break any laws, so I am trying my best to preserve my 2nd amendment rights without landing afoul.

I don't personally think that's the case. They will take your word under penalty of perjury and approve your AW request even without VOLREG prior. The AW law doesn't mention anything about a firearm being required to be registered PRIOR to being registered as an AW. If you want to wait, I'll be a Gunnar pig. I intend on registering both VolReg'd 80's and non-Reg'd 80's. I'll document the process. It will be painless.

UPDATE:

Called the DOJ. My applications have been pending for 54 days now...

I was told by Sharon that an VolReg application being submitted is sufficient evidence of ownership, it does not have to be approved by the end of the year.

Also, they now have a phone line for AW registration. The person I spoke to confirmed that registration would take place through the CRIS system, would go live on the 1st, and would cost $15 per session, not per firearm.

Thank you. Great news.