Arrested but never convicted

[twinfin]

Anybody can get arrested for anything in this country. Talk/accusations are cheap. But our founders were smart and incorporated into the beginning of this nation the principle that every man is due his day in court and that his guilt, not his innocence, must be proved in a court, by a fair trial.

PackersFan 26 can thank the wisdom and insight of a bunch of men who long ago enshrined certain unalienable rights that have withstood the test of eternity and that it is only any convictions that matter not accusations made at one time.

A parallel issue today is the "no fly list" and the leftists attempt to expand this unconscionable concept to include denying Second Amendment rights to those secretly placed on this list with little recourse to confront any evidence against them or demand redress in court.

[PackersFan26]

The guy was clearly GUiLTY as he has already admitted to having committed the dang crimes. No judge, or due process needed there. We all now know he's at least a prior hard drug user / seller and an admitted thief, all within the past 5 years of his ADULT life, and now he wants to acquire firearms and you support that?? Read his posts. I don't care if he was ever convicted at this point. He's an admitted CRIMINAL, just not convicted. The DOJ / ATF might not care, but I sure as hell do. Most people who commit crimes are not caught, but that doesn't mean everyone else should try to help them obtain lethal weapons meant for LAW ABIDING people.

To the idiot who suggested I have issues, I do, people like you who tolerate CRIMINALS and try to help them. BTW, my sons are successful adults and believe the same as I do when it comes to criminals like dopers and thieves, we don't like them.

^^^anyone know if this guy has an off switch?

[PackersFan26]

And actually no, I'm married and have a very stable job as an engineer and have a college degree. I appreciate your insight, but just because people have made mistakes in the past, doesn't make them bad people for their entire lives.

I bet your the type of guy who looks at homeless people and thinks to himself "I'm just so much better than him" right? Get off your high horse, being a retired cop with two kids in the military doesn't make you Saint.

[Chewy65]

LOL...

Hard to argue with that kind of "logic".

Whatever, keenkeen. You did bring up some good points, but that kind of "logic" is what often wins in court. What you call an exception to many, including myself, would be called an exception even if when you get down to the real nitty gritty, it ain't.

[Ninety]

The guy was clearly GUiLTY as he has already admitted to having committed the dang crimes. No judge, or due process needed there. We all now know he's at least a prior hard drug user / seller and an admitted thief, all within the past 5 years of his ADULT life, and now he wants to acquire firearms and you support that?? Read his posts. I don't care if he was ever convicted at this point. He's an admitted CRIMINAL, just not convicted. The DOJ / ATF might not care, but I sure as hell do. Most people who commit crimes are not caught, but that doesn't mean everyone else should try to help them obtain lethal weapons meant for LAW ABIDING people.

To the idiot who suggested I have issues, I do, people like you who tolerate CRIMINALS and try to help them. BTW, my sons are successful adults and believe the same as I do when it comes to criminals like dopers and thieves, we don't like them.

I'm guessing when you say that he was clearly guilty as he already admitted to commuting the crime... You are referring to his possession of a single vicodin .

If you are saying that people who have been in the possession of our who have taken vicodin in the past, are either hard core drug users, hard core drug sellers or criminals who just haven't been caught yet... And shouldn't be allowed to own firearms. You have poetically just disqualified many on this board including yourself.. Unless you've never been prescribed vicodin.

It appears to me that he is a law abiding citizen.. seems to have a decent jib and came on here seeking advice on how to legally obtain a firearm. I'm sure you are aware that a true thief would have no trouble acquiring a firearm.

The term "criminal" is subjective.. as you are aware there are a ton of Bullitt laws in this state and in this country. I'm sure you have committed a few yourself..even if still blissfully unaware..

You seem to be very intelligent, maybe you misread his post our something our maybe he has posted more information regarding his background then in this thread.

And no I don't think that a 19yr old who had in his possession a vicodin.. for whatever reason. Should be barred for life from firearm ownership.

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[roostersgt]

Asks the doper and convicted thief who wants to acquire firearms.... No off switch, when it comes to a criminal who just joined here last month and comes asking for gun acquiring help, after posting his criminal past and conviction.

Why not just seek an attorney's help for your past crime problems? Coming on here and giving the anti-gun people another color to paint with their huge brush doesn't help the CG'ers who aren't criminals like you. Your post hurts everyone here, some just don't realize it. Guns, drugs and criminal behavior, not just convictions, don't go well together.

[PackersFan26]

I'm 26. That was a long time ago. I don't feel the need to explain myself to this guy. It's clear that he's overly insecure about something in his life.

[roostersgt]

I'm guessing when you say that he was clearly guilty as he already admitted to commuting the crime... You are referring to his possession of a single vicodin .

If you are saying that people who have been in the possession of our who have taken vicodin in the past, are either hard core drug users, hard core drug sellers or criminals who just haven't been caught yet... And shouldn't be allowed to own firearms. You have poetically just disqualified many on this board including yourself.. Unless you've never been prescribed vicodin.

It appears to me that he is a law abiding citizen.. seems to have a decent jib and came on here seeking advice on how to legally obtain a firearm. I'm sure you are aware that a true thief would have no trouble acquiring a firearm.

OP, your math doesn't add up either. You say you committed all of your crimes when you were 19 and that it was 5 years ago. You can't possibly be 26. The math would put you at most 25, likely 24. You also claim to be a successful engineer. At your age? Lots of holes here fella, but you don't need to explain any of that to me. you just joined in Feb 2016, last month.

The term "criminal" is subjective.. as you are aware there are a ton of Bullitt laws in this state and in this country. I'm sure you have committed a few yourself..even if still blissfully unaware..

You seem to be very intelligent, maybe you misread his post our something our maybe he has posted more information regarding his background then in this thread.

And no I don't think that a 19yr old who had in his possession a vicodin.. for whatever reason. Should be barred for life from firearm ownership.

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You're certainly entitled to your Arizona opinion in this California matter, as am I. Doubt it very seriously that it was a single vicodin. Since he admitted he has a misdemeanor theft conviction, it's safe to say he's a convicted thief/criminal, huh? That's not being judgmental and isn't "subjective", it's merely accurately stating an obvious fact. People caught by the cops for possessing schedule drugs are not arrested for them if they have a prescription.

Vicodin is an opioid, same class as heroin, Oxycontin, hydrocodone etc.... Vicodin, sans a prescription, is considered a "hard" drug by anyone with any level of expertise in the subject. It's the sole reason heroin is now making a significant comeback.

Regardless, he was a drug user / dealer when he was caught. Sure am glad the CCW process in this state is a bit more selective in the issuance than DOJ/ATF is in the firearms acquiring process.

The OP's thread and some responses makes it appear that CG, and it's members, welcomes and encourages criminals and druggies in the firearms "community". I truly do not believe that to be the case and I am vocal about it. If some take that as "abrasive", so be it. Nobody likes to hear what they don't want to hear.

[roostersgt]

Drugs must have affected your cognitive abilities. You claim to have committed your crimes at 19 and it was 5 years ago. That would make you at the most 25, likely 24 years old. And you're supposedly an engineer? What kind?

[PackersFan26]

I'm not a criminal, druggie, or thief. Again like I've previously stated, I'm coming here for advice. Someone who experimented with drugs in their late teens makes them a criminal? Good one.

The most *** backwards advice of the day comes from an old angry ex cop who obviously has some gaping void in his life to where he has to try and make it seem like I'm a hardened extreme drug user/convicted murderer on the Internet.

I highly doubt you've never done anything illegal in your life. Your a hypocrite. And i think it's funny how crazy your making yourself sound...

Again I feel for you. Drown away in your anger my friend.

[Ninety]

Let's try not stoop to insults. And while I respect your opinion on the matter, i will disagree on the definition of hard core drug user. I have in many times traveled with multiple different pills in a single container.. vicodin,codeine,ibprofen .. at the time I was certainly not aware that it could be viewed as a crime.. And an definitely not not ever been a pill popper.. but when going out into the desert or into the wilderness.. I like to be pre paired..

I'm not sure that we have enough facts to be labeling the op in the manner you have. It seems you have a bad feeling about him and see now accusing other members off sorting hard core drug using criminals in their attempts to obtain by your words a "lethal weapon".




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[keenkeen]

Whatever, keenkeen. You did bring up some good points, but that kind of "logic" is what often wins in court. What you call an exception to many, including myself, would be called an exception even if when you get down to the real nitty gritty, it ain't.

Oh, I see the "logic" now.

Thank you for clearing it up so succinctly.

[roostersgt]

Ninety, you're comparing apples to oranges. I'm going to assume you had a prescription for your medications and they were obtained LEGALLY. That they were commingled in a container other than their prescription labeled container would only be a misdemeanor in Ca. OP didn't say exactly how he came to police attention. Makes one wonder, huh? I've made thousands of drug arrests and not a single one was of a first time user. Most had been using more than a year, especially those arrested for the "hard" drugs, like vicodin and other pain killers. Vicodin ain't weed, it's not a drug for beginners to "experiment" with, it's for those who've generally found they like drugs. That's what I testified to in court for 3 years as an "expert" witness, while working narcotics as a detective. That's where my opinion of the OP comes from. The guy just joined last month and has no history, or credibility here.

Some of our members have an abundance of sympathy for all manner of adults, who willfully and knowingly chose to be adult criminals, and seem to want to "arm" everyone they can. That's their prerogative. I disagree in that it makes CG'ers appear to visitors to want known / admitted /convicted druggies and others to be able to purchase and carry firearms. Their posts convey as much in this very thread.

CG is not a congruous community, not by a long shot. We have a few staunch anarchist types, who see themselves as "libertarian" etc... and a whole lot of normal law abiding types like myself, but who choose to remain silent, even for threads like this one. Lots of lurkers, few actual posters.

[liberallyloaded]

and a whole lot of normal law abiding types like myself, but who choose to remain silent, even for threads like this one. Lots of lurkers, few actual posters.

Amen. That said, as the site has grown, these types of threads are becoming more prevalent by the day... Not a great trend imo (no offense OP). What I wonder time after time is- why do these threads get posted only after someone has DROSed?

[Mr.Sandman]

Why is this discussion even happening?

Either do the eligibility check yourself before purchase (it exists for a reason) or wait the 10 days.

None of our opinions, even retired cops, determines whether you are eligible to own a firearm.