Contrary to "SuperTool" allegations, I didn't "call DOJ" on any personl/vendor...

[johnyreb]

You can choose not to read such posts, or you can wait until the comic book version is out - a 0.6 of a picture is worth a 600 words.

Why get involved if you don't want to read or discuss the posts?

Lol

600 words of useless BS is still






600 words of useless BS.

You discuss nothing, you stand on your soap box and preach.

[robertkjjj]

California has 38 MILLION people. More than most countries.

Statistically, there must hundreds of people in jail because of the statute you have quoted, due to bullet button violations.

Name just three.

~~~~~~

That wouldn't be the charge.

Most likely it would be manufacture, transportation, and possession of an unregistered 'assault weapon.

and Consider the life-altering effect of an eight-year stay in state prison. Compare that rather unlikely result to the benefit received from the device.

[robertkjjj]

Sarcasm is not an effective tool for convincing people.
It only makes you seem close-minded.

I only want the facts. And nobody ever gives them. I can ask a hundred people on this forum....how many people arrested in CA for AR violations, and what percent were convicted, and how many are in prison?

And nobody will ever tell me. Why? Well, I think it's because nobody on here actually knows.

This whole thing reminds me of the 1960's Bill Cosby skit, about "The Belt".

Some of you may know it. Bill Cosby's Dad was always threatening that if the kids didn't behave, he was "coming upstairs with the belt." Yet, the kids had never "seen" the belt. But, they had "heard" about it.

Pretty funny.
~~~~~~

Go ahead, do it...DO IT! I dare you, I double dog dare you! Whats the worst that could happen?

Don't be timid, Librarian is just trying to scare you because he, like the NRA and the rest of CGN just want to take your rights away, Man!

[johnyreb]

So it's only illegal if you get caught?

That's a great principal to live by.

Since your not afraid to challenge the law, and the rest of us are cowards.Stand up and put your money were your mouth is. No more long posts, just action. Head on down to your local LE and offer them a demo of a mag magnet. I am sure your posting ability and logic will sway the DA and Judge to let you go.

You will find the facts you seek real quick.

Sarcasm is not an effective tool for convincing people.
It only makes you seem close-minded.

I only want the facts. And nobody ever gives them. I can ask a hundred people on this forum....how many people arrested in CA for AR violations, and what percent were convicted, and how many are in prison?

And nobody will ever tell me. Why? Well, I think it's because nobody on here actually knows.

This whole thing reminds me of the 1960's Bill Cosby skit, about "The Belt".

Some of you may know it. Bill Cosby's Dad was always threatening that if the kids didn't behave, he was "coming upstairs with the belt." Yet, the kids had never "seen" the belt. But, they had "heard" about it.

Pretty funny.
~~~~~~

[wireless]

when I think of super tool former Sen. Yee comes to mind.

LOL

[rootuser]

California has 38 MILLION people. More than most countries.

Statistically, there must hundreds of people in jail because of the statute you have quoted, due to bullet button violations.

Name just three.

~~~~~~

I get what you are saying. Any kind of prosecution like this would be exceedingly rare.

No idea how many people are in jail, but statistically there does not have to be hundreds of people in jail because of this law. The numbers don't pan out that way (I do a lot of statistical analysis for a living).

First, most Californians are not gun owners of any kind.

Second California has one of the lowest gun ownership percentages in the U.S. (around 20% iirc). Of course, 20% of 38 million is 7.6 million gun owners, which is a lot.

Third, when you go to the fact that the AR is actually rare for most gun owners (most owners have handguns, and there are many other types of rifles and shotguns etc). So the AR is not a prolific gun in California as guns go (still a lot of people in CA so the raw numbers are probably high compared to some states).

Add to all this that the fact that most gun owners never have a run in with the law, and the vast majority that do are due to handgun related crimes, you are now looking at minuscule number of AR rifles that ever get looked at by law enforcement.

Maybe if some one is busted for this kind of thing, it is for possession of an unregistered assault weapon, which there have been tons of cases in CA??? Not sure. You'd have to go through case by case to see the reason something was called an assault weapon.

I would also expect most issues to be plead out and never get to trial (who is going to take that kind of risk?) so it would be hard to tell how many people get in trouble for this kind of thing.

Are you willing to take the risk? I am personally not willing to take the risk and think people who push these kinds of products on people without explaining the risks are lower than dog spit. Tricks like doing it on a de-milled lower (saw this myself at the cow palace years ago) makes you a scumbag and never once mentioning that the lower was de-milled and "for example purposes only".

[sl0re10]

Can you please cite some circumstances/cases? I've just never heard of any except some ancedotal ones, but never anything solid. And I don't mean a case with a felon using a bullet button on a ar-15 while having a stash of drugs. I'm just talking about a conviction of a person who was just shooting a legal ar15 and had used a bullet button w/mag magnet.

in my experience; you have to be in the legal field to be able to pull that stuff. We're stuck with news reports on the internet as the info we can sift through. Lawyers and their assistants have their own databases of cases they can search.

Really became clear for me with voter fraud debates. 0 info on it on internet forums (also; media does not report on cases)... but if you get on a lawyer's blog... and they start talking about it in the comments... you've got pages and pages of cases in no time.

[sl0re10]

The sales person was saying they were legal as long as after you use it on your gun you remove it and place it on the clip-on button provided that you pin to your shirt. It was similar to a button you buy at disneyland, but it had the vendor name. They kept doing a demo on how it worked and people crowded around.

Just to show people don't know; I don't know if that's wrong or not. Aren't people popped for leaving the tool on? Or it is since it can stick its considered part of the gun (ergo no go) vs a separate tool that can't stick / stay on?

[Felix168]

How difficult is it really for vendors to demonstrate their magnet tools on complete lowers?

I swear, only if people on "our side" are more intelligent, educated, and considerate, we would have been on the winning column.

[IVC]

600 words of useless BS is still

600 words of useless BS.

The definition of vvvvvv is ^^^^^^

You discuss nothing, you stand on your soap box and preach.

[Bigedski]

I have got to agree with bwiese, there are so many nimwits out there that think that if its ok to sell in the state that it must be legal.
When I go out to the desert shooting I always take a walk to other groups of shooters to say Hi and see the toys they have.
there is always someone that has a mag lock tool of some kind on there weapon and or Tannerite, and they say well I bought it in Kalifornia so it must be legal, so I give them the straight poop and steer them to the CalGuns web sight.
I warn them that the BLM and the Sheriffs dept does come around and snoop and if they are caught they will be hooked up and loose all the toys as well as their freedom.

[Pinto]

when I think of super tool former Sen. Yee comes to mind.

FYI, Yee is not a "former" Senator, he is the current Senator for District 8 - suspended, yes, but never resigned/booted - still holds the office.

Sorry for the thread jack, but this (the fact that Yee is still a California Senator) chaps my hide - I'll now return you to the current topic ....

[hermosabeach]

Bill

I don't get their mentality


Rob a bank- blame a teller for ruining your life cause they press the silent alarm.
That is what the schmucks are claiming


They knew what they were doing was wrong- they did it anyway

Anything that can get honest people in trouble- by omitting key facts or misrepresenting the issues but the hell out of me!


It sucks that they incorrectly threw Bill under the bus.

[bwiese]

Just to show people don't know; I don't know if that's wrong or not. Aren't people popped for leaving the tool on? Or it is since it can stick its considered part of the gun (ergo no go) vs a separate tool that can't stick / stay on?

Yup.

1. Technically the magnetic override tool is legal by itself to sell and
   possess alone. An individual selling these is indeed "legal".
   
   However, individual(s) selling these have had legal issues (arrests,
   seizures) when demoing these on an ordinary BB maglock'd gun.
   
   The smarter vendors demo'd these devices on either BB maglock's
   featureless guns (no need for a maglock, and the maglock does
   legally prevent hicap use!) or on a stripped BB-equipped receiver or
   so-called "80%" receiver milled out at least for a mag catch.
   
2. There are limited use cases (rimfire rifles, nonsemiauto manually-

cycled firearms, and registered AWs, and "outside CA") - where use of
such a device on such a BB maglock'd gun would be OK.

1. Nguyen case raised threshold for 'intent', etc. While no constructive
   possession for AW 'characteristic features' per se, you really should
   not be running around with a "legally configured" firearm & a part
   immediately nearby that can be installed/swapped to get to an
   illegal setup.
   
   The combination of gun+ parts you have should have legal outcomes
   readily possible and not an illegal one easier than all the others.
   
   In fact [esp in a metro are courtroom+judge] Nguyen in a way shifts some
   burden of proof back to you. You wanna be in a position where you can
   assert innocence and deny intent to illegally configure.
   
   Inadvertent statements against interest to LEOs in a conflict can easily be
   used against you. If you have multiple legal issues you might not be able to
   testify for yourself on the stand and thus can get double-whammy'd.
   
2. I do not have exact details on one case but I believe a plea was
   reached for a dude that had the magnetic device stuck to the
   gun even in a nonoperational position. (This is the equivalent
   of having a punch, screwdriver, pin, etc. hanging from a string &
   thus 'attached' to the gun.)
   
   Any device that sticks or/to hangs off a gun that overrides the mag
   lock is a risk - we've warned about this before for years.

[bwiese]

Bill
it sucks that they incorrectly threw Bill under the bus.

Thanks but not worried about it at all. Just wanted to set the record straight - though there was some thread drift of course