Contrary to "SuperTool" allegations, I didn't "call DOJ" on any personl/vendor...

[Wiz-of-Awd]

There have been many cases where people, including myself, have suggested that people STFU about issues that have current legislation being crafted. Many times our open and vocal debate has only helps them craft more effective bills with less loopholes. Anyone who does not think that the staffers crafting and revising the gun bills are not reading the threads on the very same subject is naive.

And most certainly participating in these discussions as calguns.net members.

A.W.D.

[robertkjjj]

And most certainly participating in these discussions as calguns.net members.

A.W.D.

Unfortunately, it's near-impossible to have an Internet forum of any type, without some interlopers and imposters being on it, in "information-collection" mode.

We'd have to use a mechanism, such as making it a pay site, or requiring a valid unique NRA membership ID, or ?????........in order to decrease the number of antis who use this site to spy.

And, how are the majority of us supposed to be able to get our points and ideas out here, without sometimes revealing ideas that the antis can use? These forums are filled with our complaints about laws, and a smart anti could harvest a lot of info.

I don't see any easy solution here. Perhaps this is just a price to pay for the freedom of having such a website.

~~~~~~~

[five.five-six]

Any device that sticks or/to hangs off a gun that overrides the mag
lock is a risk - we've warned about this before for years.[/LIST]

Well, thank god you can't release a bullet button with any of the cleaning kit parts in my buttstock






Oh wait

[taperxz]

Just ordered 5 super tools. Kamala just came over with a bottle of wine to deliver them to me.

[GW]

Bill is loud, passionate and boisterous but Bill is NOT A RAT.
Anyone claiming Bill turned them in to the DOJ is full of ****.
Bill is a warrior for our Second Amendment rights and
I am proud to say Bill is a friend.

[five.five-six]

I am proud to say Bill is a friend.

I don't think bill likes me, but he is a stand up guy for the AII. No reasonable person can question that.

[wildhawker]

Bill, where'd you see their post? I need a copy of it.

-Brandon

It appears one vendor of magnetic BulletButton-style maglock overrides ("Supertool") is alleging to some folks
that I "called the DOJ" on vendors & buyers of such devices:

Firstly, my name is spelled WIESE.

[BTW, it's also Chuck MICHEL - not "Chuck Mitchell" - when you were invoking his name to someone I trust
who reported this directly to me. ]

Secondly, I didn't & do not call the DOJ on technical CA firearms violations. That simply doesn't help
gunrights, and I'm not part of the nanny state either. They can earn their own damn money.

AND I DON'T CONTROL WHEN DOJ COMES TO A GUNSHOW. They're pretty good at that on their own.

I - like many friends here - try to warn people about firearm products that are more than likely to be misused -
esp given their quite limited legal scope of usage on various firearms.

With the negative stance in the Nguyen case raising the bar for conduct, such devices are even more problematic
esp. with regard to "intent". You really wanna be able to show likelihood/intent of legal outcome in such matters
when DAs easily see such a device category as 'overriding a compliance device', and esp if you don't have possibility
of those outcomes in your immediate possession.

The number of arrests/convictions involving magnetic BB overrides in recent times is pretty high.

The CA DOJ BoF doesn't need me, nor anyone else, pointing things out to them they already see: for years they've
frequently been undercover at larger gun shows esp in/near metro areas - and, despite all our legitimate haranguing
here on CGN of their various actions & competency - will occasionally get some things right, especially "low hanging
fruit" like these matters.

SuperTool is indeed apparently smart enough to not demonstrate felonious activity at shows, as they've not been
arrested or had products seized - unlike at least one other vendor of an essentially similar product. Their product,
standing alone, is not prohibited but as we all know, CA gun law is a lot more complex than that. I do not track
whether the various such arrests/convictions actually involve a SuperTool or a product from Brands X or Y or Z,
because that is immaterial - magnetic maglock override devices are pretty much functionally identical, regardless of
branding, and the "tool" aura is dishonorably invoked by various vendors to muddle in with the "tool" mentioned in
CA 11 CCR 5469(a) regulatory definition of 'detachable magazine'

Note that people abusing unlockable BBs with allen wrenches in their pocket have risk too, esp if LE sees something
at a distance. The _effective_ burden of proof then becomes for you to show you didn't do something and didn't
intend to violate law. Having a properly configured rifle without such controversy immediately accessible to you helps
pass the 'smell test', and regular BB-style maglock'd rifles are now "old hat" to most CA LEOs after the last 7 years.

BTW I think in recent year or so a fair fraction of 'technical CA AW violations' charged for post-2006 guns may well've
been due to such magnetic overrides given number of cases


[NB: Would I contact LE about certain violations? Sure, in certain limited manner...

1. like many of us here would - stopping real bad guys trying to illegally garner firearms for criminal purposes. [You
think those various nefarious prohibited parties buying illegally from various BATF-raided "80% gamers" (Sacto area,
etc.) are remotely helpful to our rights?]

2. In limited circumstances where a CA LEO illegally acquires/possesses various prohibited guns and where pushback:

(1) can directly aid in someone's legal defense, (hey, turnabout is fair play);

(2) have a reasonable chance of political bite-back, aiding any fixup legislation, etc. See recent SFPD drug lab scandal
to understand city/county costs & DA outcomes and why this might be a valuable tool... ]

[USMCM16A2]

Bill "the Supertool" Wiese

Bill,



Looks like your being accused of being a "Supertool" of the DOJ. A2

[LBDamned]

people, items, opinions, etc... are not the problem.

The problem is CA. And the ridiculous amount of rules, regulations, infringements, hell - let's just call it communism.

It doesn't start or end with firearms either... this state is hell bent on stripping all freedoms from every poor schmuck that finds themselves living here. There are many subjects that have very similar circumstances and end with people being upset with other people - none of which have anything to do with the real problem > overzealous control of CA residents.

[chris]

FYI, Yee is not a "former" Senator, he is the current Senator for District 8 - suspended, yes, but never resigned/booted - still holds the office.

Sorry for the thread jack, but this (the fact that Yee is still a California Senator) chaps my hide - I'll now return you to the current topic ....

doesn't change the fact that he is a TOOL.

[Merc1138]

I do not have exact details on one case but I believe a plea was
reached for a dude that had the magnetic device stuck to the
gun even in a nonoperational position. (This is the equivalent
of having a punch, screwdriver, pin, etc. hanging from a string &
thus 'attached' to the gun.)

Any device that sticks or/to hangs off a gun that overrides the mag
lock is a risk - we've warned about this before for years.

Bill,

Do you think that it's possible to get some examples of these cases together so they can be added to the calguns wiki as a reference and quick way to put and end to the silly arguments about using one of these things on a BB'd semi auto centerfire rifle with AW features?

[cbright1]

Not to stray too far off topic, but is the law written that specifically states that if something is attached to a firearm (like the mag magnet for example), it becomes part of the firearm? Or is that conclusion an opinion? Not trying to start a big fight here, just wondering. Has it been determined from some case that was tried? Has CA DOJ stated it?

[BigBamBoo]

Well lets think about this for a hot second. If you "attach" a sling, or a recoil pad, or a scope/sights, or hand guard, etc., etc., to a rifle....is it now part of the rifle? My opinion and common sense would say YES. So a mag magnet, key chain bullet thingy, or any other device as Bill stated above that is "attached"....is well...attached.

[Wiz-of-Awd]

Not to stray too far off topic, but is the law written that specifically states that if something is attached to a firearm (like the mag magnet for example), it becomes part of the firearm? Or is that conclusion an opinion? Not trying to start a big fight here, just wondering. Has it been determined from some case that was tried? Has CA DOJ stated it?

Hate to say it, but I'm afraid good ole' common sense comes into play on this one, and how a jury of your peers may perceive such a thing in court.

Attached = attached = "part of."
Whether by nut & bolt, weld, magnetism, whatever.

A.W.D.

[taperxz]

Hate to say it, but I'm afraid good ole' common sense comes into play on this one, and how a jury of your peers may perceive such a thing in court.

Attached = attached = "part of."
Whether by nut & bolt, weld, magnetism, whatever.

A.W.D.

What about holding it with ones hands? Isn't there a force of energy holding the weapon along with the tool?

If one were to hold a weapon in one hand, the tool in the other, all 3 entities are now attached.