Contrary to "SuperTool" allegations, I didn't "call DOJ" on any personl/vendor...

[RobG]

While I appreciate Bill's passion, I say let it go. If people want to push the envelope of legality I say go for it. It is up to the individual to know what is and what is not legal and how much of their life they are willing to risk over a magnet.

[johnyreb]

While I appreciate Bill's passion, I say let it go. If people want to push the envelope of legality I say go for it. It is up to the individual to know what is and what is not legal and how much of their life they are willing to risk over a magnet.

Because pushing the envelope is what gave us gems like sb249

The 80% AR insanity has given us SB808


By all means keep on pushing that grey area here in CA, the antis need fresh ideas for bans....

[IVC]

The 80% AR insanity has given us SB808

Not a good argument.

What's the difference between not using 80% builds because they might get banned and not using 80% builds because they did get banned?

If there is a "right" that is taken away the moment it is exercised, I'd say let's put it on the books as illegal - it makes no practical difference since either way one cannot do it, but at least the courts can see the true picture when it all gets challenged...

[Tincon]

While I appreciate Bill's passion, I say let it go. If people want to push the envelope of legality I say go for it. It is up to the individual to know what is and what is not legal and how much of their life they are willing to risk over a magnet.

That's the problem, they don't know. And if no one tells them otherwise, they will believe the BS from some vendor, use this crap out at the range, and go to prison.

[Merc1138]

That's the problem, they don't know. And if no one tells them otherwise, they will believe the BS from some vendor, use this crap out at the range, and go to prison.

I don't understand how RobG could have seriously typed that statement, since he knows full well the amount of BS that comes out of gun shops and manufacturers regarding things that aren't even legal issues(gun X is better than gun Y, this manufacturers 9mm will get stopped by a leather jacket while this other company makes 9mm cartridges that will go through 10 cinderblock walls, hell we've still got shops in CA claiming that only top loading ARs are legal).

[johnyreb]

Not a good argument.

What's the difference between not using 80% builds because they might get banned and not using 80% builds because they did get banned?

If there is a "right" that is taken away the moment it is exercised, I'd say let's put it on the books as illegal - it makes no practical difference since either way one cannot do it, but at least the courts can see the true picture when it all gets challenged...

Using CNC shops to finish ARs was determined to be illegal federally...and yet people continued....watch the news much? Sacramento was ground zero for it.

It was pushed by people out to make a buck, and now it's over.

The fallout of that nonsense is SB808...which pretty much screws home builders/hobbyists.


These "tools" are the same mentality make a buck and run.

Was not SB249 because of the mag magnet? It was all over the news as such....


Then we have Tannerite ......

[MudCamper]

I agree. In the spirit of honesty though, I swear I didn't make the first response with the intention to troll. I just don't like Bill because he represents what I perceive as a Loyalist to the State for continuing to bend over backwards in an effort to acquiesce to illegal laws instead of standing in defiance to them.

You are a freakin idiot. Do you know how many people Bill has help stay out of Jail? It's countless, but I personally know a few. You don't know what you are talking about. Get over yourself.

[Wiz-of-Awd]

Feels like this thread has just become a barrage of nonsense.

So "Page 4"

A.W.D.

[robertkjjj]

chicken or egg?

I disagree with your logic, and here is why:
By your logic, the reason that the antis keep coming up with MORE new laws against us, is because we pro-2nd people keep "provoking" them to do it by finding new ways to have the kind of guns we want. You act as if we pro-2nd people are doing these creative workarounds in some kind of vacuum. You act as if we pro-2nd people go to all this trouble, expense, and what-not for no reason whatsoever.

I say, sir, you have it 180 degrees backwards.What is really happening is this sequence:
1. People in CA have certain types of rifles and pistols that are commonplace in most other states.
2. A gun-related crime gets committed that grabs the headlines.
3. In reaction to the crime, all the libs in Sacramento gear up and write bills that chip away at the RTKBA all around the edges. Magazine sizes, bullet buttons, AR features, wait times, you name it.
4. Some of the bills pass.
5. In reaction to the new bills, CA gun owners get pissed, because now they can't have some of the firearms and features that they can easily get in most other states.
6. Small companies step in, and create small inventions that help CA gun owners continue to have the old features they still want, but still remain within the letter of the law(or close to it )
7. CA gun owners buy the new inventions, like them, and word of mouth etc. increases sales. Soon, word of the invention being used reaches the antis.
8. The antis react in horror, like this: "Those a-hole gun people! How dare they! How dare they try to work around OUR new wonderful law! We'll show them!! We'll just write ANOTHER law!!!!"
9. And then they do.
10. And the circle of insanity continues.


Sir, it's not "pushing the envelope". Rather, it's a pretty darn logical reaction to being subjected to anti-2nd laws.

Now, a "normal" person would recognize that constantly repressing people would create these kind of normal desires for circumvention and workarounds. But then, we're not dealing with "normal" people'. We're dealing with statists. We're dealing with control freaks. We're dealing with liberals.

Just as a person who is wrongly convicted and locked up in a cage will CONSTANTLY look for a way to escape, so it is with the firearm owners in the great state of CA.


~~~~~~~~

Because pushing the envelope is what gave us gems like sb249

The 80% AR insanity has given us SB808


By all means keep on pushing that grey area here in CA, the antis need fresh ideas for bans....

[johnyreb]

Um okay,

Keep on with the current behavior, it's worked so well for us so far!

I disagree with your logic, and here is why:
By your logic, the reason that the antis keep coming up with MORE new laws against us, is because we pro-2nd people keep "provoking" them to do it by finding new ways to have the kind of guns we want. You act as if we pro-2nd people are doing these creative workarounds in some kind of vacuum. You act as if we pro-2nd people go to all this trouble, expense, and what-not for no reason whatsoever.

I say, sir, you have it 180 degrees backwards.What is really happening is this sequence:
1. People in CA have certain types of rifles and pistols that are commonplace in most other states.
2. A gun-related crime gets committed that grabs the headlines.
3. In reaction to the crime, all the libs in Sacramento gear up and write bills that chip away at the RTKBA all around the edges. Magazine sizes, bullet buttons, AR features, wait times, you name it.
4. Some of the bills pass.
5. In reaction to the new bills, CA gun owners get pissed, because now they can't have some of the firearms and features that they can easily get in most other states.
6. Small companies step in, and create small inventions that help CA gun owners continue to have the old features they still want, but still remain within the letter of the law(or close to it )
7. CA gun owners buy the new inventions, like them, and word of mouth etc. increases sales. Soon, word of the invention being used reaches the antis.
8. The antis react in horror, like this: "Those a-hole gun people! How dare they! How dare they try to work around OUR new wonderful law! We'll show them!! We'll just write ANOTHER law!!!!"
9. And then they do.
10. And the circle of insanity continues.


Sir, it's not "pushing the envelope". Rather, it's a pretty darn logical reaction to being subjected to anti-2nd laws.

Now, a "normal" person would recognize that constantly repressing people would create these kind of normal desires for circumvention and workarounds. But then, we're not dealing with "normal" people'. We're dealing with statists. We're dealing with control freaks. We're dealing with liberals.

Just as a person who is wrongly convicted and locked up in a cage will CONSTANTLY look for a way to escape, so it is with the firearm owners in the great state of CA.


~~~~~~~~

[Mayor McRifle]

Um okay,

Keep on with the current behavior, it's worked so well for us so far!

LOL.

But if we keep doing the same thing over and over again, we're bound to get different results eventually. Right?

[robertkjjj]

Stand up or lie down for your rights.....

Ya know, for a guy who calls himself "johnnyreb", I don't see even the slightest smidge of "rebel" in you.

Just stating the obvious.

~~~~~~~~

Um okay,

Keep on with the current behavior, it's worked so well for us so far!

[jcwatchdog]

The number of arrests/convictions involving magnetic BB overrides in recent times is pretty high.


BTW I think in recent year or so a fair fraction of 'technical CA AW violations' charged for post-2006 guns may well've
been due to such magnetic overrides given number of cases

Can you please cite some circumstances/cases? I've just never heard of any except some ancedotal ones, but never anything solid. And I don't mean a case with a felon using a bullet button on a ar-15 while having a stash of drugs. I'm just talking about a conviction of a person who was just shooting a legal ar15 and had used a bullet button w/mag magnet.

[bwiese]

AB808 wasn't just about Joe Blow-Building-80%ers-in-his-garage.

AB808 happened because of accumulation of...

• Ares' stupid PR drama;
  
• BATF etc. investigation dubious CNC houses (Sacto! Fresno!...) selling a variety of
  (often illegally-configured) guns to prohibited people.
  
  Esp with the content of recorded conversations.
  
  Clearly many were in the mfg trade by known law, and "pushing the big red button" was
  an artifice. Furthermore, they appear to have assembled full guns from receivers, and
  in a variety of prohibited categories. Probl. a buncha uncharged state violations too.

[I hate that term 80% anyway since there's no such thing.]

[hornswaggled]

Any magnet vendor who demos his product slapping it on a featureless rifle or separated lower and mentions nothing how it's illegal to use on the vast majority of BB'd rifles in California is

A

****ing

Scumbag