Old Sacramento bans guns during "Old Sacramento days" over the weekend

[emc002]

Really now are you speaking first hand here? Bring your shovel as you are digging a hole for yourself. It called trespass, California has very few restrictions for CCW. You ever herd of "pack-don't-tell," gang bangers are better armed than you think. I know of a mall near work that has one of the signs, "no weapons," all I risk is "trespassing" and if I have to save your sorry azz, you thanks me latter. All WalMart's had these signs for a while, where are the signs now? Lose a CCW for trespassing? Not likely.

You're right, worst that can happen if a property owner catches you is to ask you to leave. If you say no, then you could be arrested for trespassing.

Now that being said, WTF is up with the attitude? They guy was trying to understand/communicate his interpretation of the law, not asking some internet tough guy to "save [his] sorry azz". And if you think your issuing agency won't yank your permit for trespassing relative to a property owner asking you to leave for CCWing, you're either very well connected, delusional or don't really have your permit. I'm betting on the third option.

One more thing, cite your source for your statement below and back up your statement with fact (not idle speculation), please.

Gone, they got sued because of a few altercations in the parking lots because of the stupid restrictions.

[Ten Rounder]

You're right, worst that can happen if a property owner catches you is to ask you to leave. If you say no, then you could be arrested for trespassing.

Now that being said, WTF is up with the attitude? They guy was trying to understand/communicate his interpretation of the law, not asking some internet tough guy to "save [his] sorry azz". And if you think your issuing agency won't yank your permit for trespassing relative to a property owner asking you to leave for CCWing, you're either very well connected, delusional or don't really have your permit. I'm betting on the third option.

One more thing, cite your source for your statement below and back up your statement with fact (not idle speculation), please.

I'll cite my source, CCW refresher course 5/07, current law review and changes, the policy change came from back east, not California, but it was a company wide policy change. It was even posted on PDO when that was working. As for the third option, YOU LOST!!!! As for Ding, he has a habit of chewing on both feet at the same time.

[emc002]

I'll cite my source, CCW refresher course 5/07, current law review and changes, the policy change came from back east, not California, but it was a company wide policy change. It was even posted on PDO when that was working. As for the third option, YOU LOST!!!! As for Ding, he has a habit of chewing on both feet at the same time.

LOL. Show me documents, not some obsure "CCW refresher course" reference. I'd like to know for my own information since I still see the signs periodically.
(Ironically, I don't see the signs in SF when I visit (which is rare), probably because of their county/city's no-issue policies. I take some smug satisfaction in carrying there knowing I'm one of only maybe a dozen non-LEO that are doing so in that God accursed city.)

So it wasn't the third option, then it must be the second!

[Ten Rounder]

LOL. Show me documents, not some obsure "CCW refresher course"
So it wasn't the third option, then it must be the second!

I am trying to rethink the afternoon of the class, I believe IIRC an out of court settlement......since you have no google fu, I found this for you. SF is a little odd to carry, I tend to stay out of the green zone(NP area). It is a gray area as you have a right to pass. Maybe that will change soon.

http://www.virtualjeepclub.com/showthread.php?t=36884 post #9 on this page


they have a Corp policy to NOT ban CCW guns...

DATE: Friday, April 16,1999 2:13 PM

Subject: RE: Firearms

Thank you for contacting Wal-Mart regarding our concealed handgun policy. Wal-Mart was founded by Sam Walton on three basic principles. Strive for Excellence, Service to our Customers, and Respect for the Individual. It is that respect for the individual that led us to create the current policy pertaining to concealed handguns.

The following is our policy......If a Wal-Mart customer has been awarded a concealed handgun license by the state government, Wal-Mart will follow the direction of the state. However, if at anytime while on Wal-Mart property, that customer's concealed weapon becomes visible to Wal-Mart associates or customers, Wal-Mart reserves the right to ask the customer to either reposition the weapon so that it will not be visible, to remove the weapon completely or to leave Wal-Mart property, With the exception of law enforcement personnel, Wal-Mart does not allow any exposed weapons to be worn or carried in public view on Wal-Mart property or in Wal-Mart stores. Customers other than law enforcement personnel wearing or carrying a weapon in an exposed manner will be asked to leave the property immediately.

We appreciate your concern and trust that this message has addressed your concerns regarding this issue.

Thank you,

Wal-Mart Stores, Inc.



-------------------------

Wal-Mart's Policy About Concealed Weapons on Their Premises

For those of you who have encountered "NO CONCEAL CARRY" signs on your local Wal-Mart front doors. The reason why the signs are up is because they are in the computer. When a store manager orders new signs, if that manager is anti-gun, he can order those signs and put them up. The Wal-Mart corporate policy goes against these managers. You can call up Wal-Mart and tell them that said manager is going against the corporate policy and the signs will be taken down. I know because this has happened a couple of times here in South Carolina and it has been pursued and the signs have been removed.

wal mart corp hq 800-925-6278 - legal dept 479-273-4505 legal department

Walmart stores
702 south wewt 8th St
Bentonville Arkansas
72716-0215

[emc002]

Good job and never question my google-fu, it is strong! I was just lazy making you work for it!
However, your cite, while useful, hardly lends credence to your theory of "being sued" precipitating a change, rather it points out that Wal-Mart has changed there policy at some point. (BTW, now I'm just arguing semantics just to argue as I'm enjoying this and your snarky comments are actually pretty funny!)
Oh, and WTF is the "green zone (NP area)" The National Parks? Isn't that only The Presidio & Alcatraz? That would be a gray area, but the whole point is concealed and all they can do is ask me to leave. Are we right back where we started now?

I am trying to rethink the afternoon of the class, I believe IIRC an out of court settlement......since you have no google fu, I found this for you. SF is a little odd to carry, I tend to stay out of the green zone(NP area). It is a gray area as you have a right to pass. Maybe that will change soon.

[Ten Rounder]

Good job and never question my google-fu, it is strong! I was just lazy making you work for it!
However, your cite, while useful, hardly lends credence to your theory of "being sued" precipitating a change, rather it points out that Wal-Mart has changed there policy at some point. (BTW, now I'm just arguing semantics just to argue as I'm enjoying this and your snarky comments are actually pretty funny!)
Oh, and WTF is the "green zone (NP area)" The National Parks? Isn't that only The Presidio & Alcatraz? That would be a gray area, but the whole point is concealed and all they can do is ask me to leave. Are we right back where we started now?

The Persidio, you got it right, a very big part in the north end of the city. I might be willing to test an area but not there in the green zone. I carry a map of the city when there, and the "green" area is marked on the map, that's why I call it the green zone.

IIRC customer was retuning to his car after shopping a Walmart one evening. At his car he was beat badly and robbed. He was a CCW holder and his weapon was removed and secured in his car before shopping. He was unable to recover the weapon and defend himself, and then was disabled from the beating. As you say in the second part of my previous post Wal-Mart probably had two policies and use which ever one fight for the occasion. Because Wal-Mart denied his lawful protection complying to their policies he was beaten and robed. The settlement was about 05 to 06. Now your turn, get your google fu and find it.

Now on the other hand, Costco's CCW policy sucks. I just keep my mouth shut and go about my business.

[emc002]

IIRC customer was retuning to his car after shopping a Walmart one evening. At his car he was beat badly and robbed. He was a CCW holder and his weapon was removed and secured in his car before shopping. He was unable to recover the weapon and defend himself, and then was disabled from the beating. As you say in the second part of my previous post Wal-Mart probably had two policies and use which ever one fight for the occasion. Because Wal-Mart denied his lawful protection complying to their policies he was beaten and robed. The settlement was about 05 to 06. Now your turn, get your google fu and find it.

Hmmm, working on it now.
I also sent an e-mail to WalMart's corporate legal department to get some verification (on the policy, not the lawsuit). Nothing is turning up on lawsuits, and I've checked Westlaw too.
I'm thinking Walmart is like Disneyland, all things get settled and vanish. (You do know that Disneyland's tickets require you to submit to arbitration and ultimately (if you make it that far) Orange County jurisdiction for any lawsuits? Gee, wonder who Orange County will favor? And good luck finding any that have made it to court, excepting one former Israeli paratrooper that was paralyzed by Indian Jones ride.)

[Ding126]

Really now are you speaking first hand here? Bring your shovel as you are digging a hole for yourself. It called trespass, California has very few restrictions for CCW. You ever herd of "pack-don't-tell," gang bangers are better armed than you think. I know of a mall near work that has one of the signs, "no weapons," all I risk is "trespassing" and if I have to save your sorry azz, you thanks me latter. All WalMart's had these signs for a while, where are the signs now? Gone, they got sued because of a few altercations in the parking lots because of the stupid restrictions. Lose a CCW for trespassing? Not likely.

actually I was speaking from AZ law. I should of clarified that. I would also think it would apply to most states as well

[firecaptdave]

Actually, it would. See the fight ongoing right now about CCW in National Parks.

Actually, it shouldn't restrict carrying concealed w/ a CCW. CCW is permitted in state parks. If you go to calccw.com you can see the text of an email one of the members received from the director of LE (I think that's his title) for state parks. The email states that CCW is permitted in state parks.

[Ten Rounder]

And good luck finding any that have made it to court, excepting one former Israeli paratrooper that was paralyzed by Indian Jones ride.)

Years ago I worked in a shop that actually built some of the Indiana Jones Set that went to Florida. Was more like a theme show. Their contracts are REAMS thick and the outcome is really not to work for them in and form. Remembering that later we bid and lost on a sample piece because our bid was to high and it was a make work project in lean times. Some sucker built the sample even cheaper and installed it and it then turned into "the ride." Sneaky bastids they are. Not to sure about the ride that you are talking about with the paratrooper.

[emc002]

Here's my question, Wal-Mart's response and my follow-up question. No luck so far in getting an answer...

> ----Your Original Comments Were----
>
> Comments: I am a concealed weapons permit holder and wanted to confirm the following is actually WalMart policy, not an internet hoax."DATE: Friday, April 16,1999 2:13 PMSubject: RE: FirearmsThank you for contacting Wal-Mart regarding our concealed handgun policy. Wal-Mart was founded by Sam Walton on three basic principles. Strive for Excellence, Service to our Customers, and Respect for the Individual. It is that respect for the individual that led us to create the current policy pertaining to concealed handguns.The following is our policy......If a Wal-Mart customer has been awarded a concealed handgun license by the state government, Wal-Mart will follow the direction of the state. However, if at anytime while on Wal-Mart property, that customer's concealed weapon becomes visible to Wal-Mart associates or customers, Wal-Mart reserves the right to ask the customer to either reposition the weapon so that it will not be visible, to remove the weapon completely or to leave Wal-Mart property, With the exception of law enforcement personnel, Wal-Mart does not allow any exposed weapons to be worn or carried in public view on Wal-Mart property or in Wal-Mart stores. Customers other than law enforcement personnel wearing or carrying a weapon in an exposed manner will be asked to leave the property immediately.We appreciate your concern and trust that this message has addressed your concerns regarding this issue.Thank you,Wal-Mart Stores, Inc."Thank you for your assistance,XXXX

> Subject: Response from Wal-Mart Stores, Inc. (Ref #000000020719985)
> Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2008 09 : 37:13 -0500
> From: cstreply@wal-mart.com
> To: XXXX
>
> Thank you for your message.
>
> Dear XXXX,
>
> Wal-Mart understands its role as a leading, responsible retailer in the U.S. and is making strides to strengthen its already existing security processes to help combat illegal gun activity in the communities we serve. Wal-Mart has a long and proud history of offering the products hunters and outdoorsmen want and need and that will not change.
>
> It is important to note that these procedures should not impede law-abiding citizens from purchasing firearms at our stores that sell them. These processes merely provide us, as a retailer, an additional mechanism to assist law enforcement when illegal activity occurs.
>
> We are hopeful these enhanced processes with help from law enforcement and other retailers committing to do the same can make a positive difference in our communities.
>
> Thank you,
> Wal-Mart Customer Relations
>
>
>
> For further correspondence regarding this issue, please reply to this email.

Dear Wal-Mart,
Unfortunately, your canned "firearm response" justifying Wal-Mart's capitulation to the extortion of New York Mayor Bloomberg did not address my question.
What is Wal-Mart's policy on allowing persons with valid Concealed Carry Permits, issued by their respective State/County law enforcement office, to concealed carry on Wal-Mart properties?
Thanks,
XXXX

[bohoki]

hmm about that sign does that mean that when they put the sign away people are allowed to carry firearms?

[DedEye]

Just go dressed as you are with your legal firearm and say you're reenacting a time traveler . Add a badge and you can claim to be a time cop .

[Liberty1]

Just go dressed as you are with your legal firearm and say you're reenacting a time traveler . Add a badge and you can claim to be a time cop .

[E Pluribus Unum]

If Ca ever becomes a shall issue state, it doesn't mean you can carry every where. If a restaurant, sporting event etc. has signs posted. You must obey the request of the posted sign or risk loosing your CCW. ( if caught ) You don't see it often in AZ but the local Costco has a sign at the entrance..so now I don't go there. Same with gun shops or sporting stores..but like I said, Its not often you see them.

Not always true.



Can I open a store and put a sign out that says "No Gays"?

Can I have two drinking fountains, one has a "whites only" and the other says "Coloreds"?

Can I rent my house to only white people?


The answer to all of these questions is "No". Certain laws exist which guarantee citizen's rights even on private property. If you open a business that is "open to the public" then you MUST recognize all of their civil rights and cannot discriminate.

With the Heller decision saying it is a RIGHT to carry weapons, the laws already on the books prohibit the restriction of civil rights. After incorporation, these laws would provide limited protection of our second amendment rights even on private land when that private land is open to the public.

As I understand it, even now if a private business owner posts "no firearms allowed" and you are carrying CCW and are discovered, all that can happen is that you be asked to leave. I don't think a CCW holder can be prosecuted for carrying concealed even if the land owner posts it.