Bullet button rifle with a 30 round magazine shell (no internals) legal?

[thesav]

If it's supposed to be wall art, then gut the rifle.
Remove the gas tube, cement the chamber/barrel, fill the mag with epoxy/wood plug, remove the buffer system.
Just disable the entire gun in every possible and permanent way.
If it's not a wall hanger, then don't try to be clever in CA. It ain't worth the result.

[CrippledPidgeon]

Just use a fake mag. Airsoft, and file it to fit.

[tal3nt]

You're right.

It's just how this wonderful state of ours has made such a mess of things, that everyone must second guess their second and third guesses about legalities.

A.W.D.

Pretty much exactly it.

[vincewarde]

its not an ammunition feeding device at that point.

As others have pointed out, it could function if inverted. Remember, it doesn't have to function reliably - it just has to function. If it feeds 1 time out of 5 or 10, they could argue that it is a functional magazine.

[AceGirlsHusband]

Would it be legal to have a bullet button equipped rifle with a 30 round magazine even if the magazine did not have any internal parts? Meaning the magazine was just the shell and did not have a spring follower or base plate?

I assume it is, but wanted to hear some comments on it.

That would not be a magazine... just a part. But why would you want to do it? It makes no more sense than wondering if you could carve a bar of soap into a replica .45 and walk into a bank with it.

[CSACANNONEER]

So where does one obtain the facts then? Calguns?

That would not be a magazine... just a part. But why would you want to do it? It makes no more sense than wondering if you could carve a bar of soap into a replica .45 and walk into a bank with it.

With a way to hold rounds and feed lips, it could still be an "ammunition feeding devise".

[RP1911]

Lol. So my ten rounds mags without spring and follower are illegal too?!?! I can't ever disassemble my CA legal mags?!?! No0oo0o0oo!!!

I can see this maybe being used to knock down magazine capacity laws.


[sarcasm]Maybe we should go to 5 (?) round mags as they won't hold more than 10 when the spring and follower are removed.[/sarcasm]

[PaperPuncher]

How many people reading this went home to check how many rounds they can fit into their empty magazine well last night?

That being asked and by what is being stated in this thread we should all go home and weld a 10 rounder into the mag well.

[USM0083]

Chop the top inch off the mag and you should be good to go.

[Don Nguyen]

The way I see it is it still has a capacity of 10+. If anything, it'll be able to hold more than 30 rounds now.

[MrTokarev]

With a way to hold rounds and feed lips, it could still be an "ammunition feeding devise".

What if you ground off the feed lips?

It would just be an empty metal box with the notch to lock it into the mag well. I would think mechanically it would be about the same as having an empty mag well.

[SOAR79]

10/30 all day

[Epaphroditus]

If it is otherwise functional then storage laws may also become a concern. Or theft. Can the 'art' be seen from the street?

[goober]

leave the follower in, fill it with expanding spray foam, and put the floor plate on. now it's a 0/30 sled.

[jeremiah12]

Would it be legal to have a bullet button equipped rifle with a 30 round magazine even if the magazine did not have any internal parts? Meaning the magazine was just the shell and did not have a spring follower or base plate?

I assume it is, but wanted to hear some comments on it.

Think like an attorney to get your answer. If you cannot think like an attorney then pay the money to consult with a very good attorney. It will not be cheap but it will potentially save you tens of thousands of dollars and possibly your future freedom. Also, Bill Weise gives very sound advise.

First, it is not legal to have a 30 round mag on a BB rifle. Without the internal parts an no block, a DA could easily argue it clearly was not a 10/30 mag and there is no proof that it ever was. It can hold over 10 rounds and it is an ammunition feeding device. It might only work 1 out of 10 times and only when the rifle is held upside down, but it fits the legal definition.

Jury nullification sounds like a wonderful idea, but what are the chances of it happening? You are still out the legal costs if you do get it. The DA will do everything possible to dismiss from the jury those that would vote to acquit because they do not agree with the law. Having experienced the jury selection process many times myself I can tell you very few people can get through it without giving up their dearly held political opinions. Those that get selected are the ones that are too dumb to have an excuse to get out of it, are on welfare, do not work, or are public employees who get paid their full salaries while serving on juries (this was enacted a few years back to ensure that at least some people would not be able to get out of jury service for financial hardship). So you are most likely to end up with a jury that leans anti-gun, especially in urban areas.

Finally, even if it is wall art and you expect it to never be seen by a LEO because it will be in your home and you will never invite LE into your home, it will happen when you are not expecting it. You will call the police when you house is burglarized and they come to take a report. You invite people over and someone is an anti and is afraid of your EBR on the wall and calls LE to report it. Worse, they take a picture of it with their cell phone. That gives an overzealous cop a reason to knock on your door. The picture could provide probable cause for a search warrant. You have a fire and the fire department arrives. While fighting the fire the fire fighters see the rifle hanging on the wall and will call LE to check it out. (My FIL is a retired firefighter and that is what they did every time they came across a firearm while fighting a fire).

These are the stupid games that win stupid prizes cases that take away from fighting the real battles that Bill Weise is frequently talking about. These are the ones the cases the people come begging for money to help with their defense and get upset when they are turned down.

Personally, I believe laws restricting magazine size are unconstitutional. There are several very good cases going through the court system to challenge these laws and I believe they have a good chance of being overturned eventually. It takes time. The court system works painfully slow.

So, if you think it is legal, do it. Invite the local DA over and show off your art. Who knows, you might be able to bring up a 1A defense by claiming it is art. I have a feeling though you are posting your question here because you know CA gun laws are purposely convoluted but there is a very good chance that what you are proposing will not be considered legal by those in charge of prosecuting people who violate CA laws. Roll the dice and take the chance. Just do not expect everyone here to contribute to your defense fund if you loose.