Cal-gunners Militia

[dwightlooi]

From the California Constitution.
11460. (a) Any two or more persons who assemble as a paramilitary
organization for the purpose of practicing with weapons shall be
punished by imprisonment in a county jail for not more than one year
or by a fine of not more than one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by
both that fine and imprisonment.
As used in this subdivision, "paramilitary organization" means an
organization which is not an agency of the United States government
or of the State of California, or which is not a private school
meeting the requirements set forth in Section 48222 of the Education
Code, but which engages in instruction or training in guerrilla
warfare or sabotage, or which, as an organization, engages in rioting
or the violent disruption of, or the violent interference with,
school activities.

• The Militia does not engage in instruction of Guerilla Warfare or Sabotage.
• The Miltia does not as an organization engage in rioting, violent disruption or interference

As such the militia is not a paramilitary organization by the law's own definition.

(b) (1) Any person who teaches or demonstrates to any other person
the use, application, or making of any firearm, explosive, or
destructive device, or technique capable of causing injury or death
to persons, knowing or having reason to know or intending that these
objects or techniques will be unlawfully employed for use in, or in
the furtherance of a civil disorder, or any person who assembles with
one or more other persons for the purpose of training with,
practicing with, or being instructed in the use of any firearm,
explosive, or destructive device, or technique capable of causing
injury or death to persons, with the intent to cause or further a
civil disorder, shall be punished by imprisonment in the county jail
for not more than one year or by a fine of not more than one thousand
dollars ($1,000), or by both that fine and imprisonment.
Nothing in this subdivision shall make unlawful any act of any
peace officer or a member of the military forces of this state or of
the United States, performed in the lawful course of his or her
official duties.
(2) As used in this section:
(A) "Civil disorder" means any disturbance involving acts of
violence which cause an immediate danger of or results in damage or
injury to the property or person of any other individual.
(B) "Destructive device" has the same meaning as in Section 12301.
(C) "Explosive" has the same meaning as in Section 12000 of the
Health and Safety Code.
(D) "Firearm" means any device designed to be used as a weapon, or
which may readily be converted to a weapon, from which is expelled a
projectile by the force of any explosion or other form of
combustion, or the frame or receiver of this weapon.
(E) "Peace officer" means any peace officer or other officer
having the powers of arrest of a peace officer, specified in Chapter
4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2.

• The Militia engage in the instruction of firearms, but does not organize, promote or condone their unlawful employment for use in, or in the furtherance of a civil disorder, or any person who assembles with one or more other persons for the purpose of training with, practicing with, or being instructed in the use of any firearm, explosive, or destructive device, or technique capable of causing injury or death to persons, with the intent to cause or further a civil disorder

As such it is not illegal.

/thread

...

[dwightlooi]

So then your militia would be under the direct control or chain of command of State or Federal government.

Your organization, training, and equipment would be as prescribed by congress. Your officers would be appointed by the State. When you are actually called forth you would be under the command of State or Federal government as appropriate.

No, the Militia is an organization whose members are individual citizens able to provide their own firearm(s), ammunition and other personal equipment, and who are willing -- should there be a need -- to step up in defense of the Constitution of the United States. The leaders are simply community organizers whose leadership is based entirely upon the willing and conscientious following by the membership. They do not have any actual corporal or lawful authority.

The organization simply provides the framework to reach out to and contact such individuals.

Saying that this is illegal is saying that the following is illegal:-

1. Owning a Firearm (legally)
2. Owning Ammunition (legally)
3. Owning personal equipment and clothing
4. Declaring that one is able and willing to be contacted for service in defense of the constitution of the USA
5. Being on a list or membership role of such self-identified individuals

[taperxz]

Why do you want to form a militia? What is your intended purpose for this? What are you trying to accomplish?

[dustoff31]

No, the Militia is a organization whose members are individual citizens able to provide their own firearm(s), ammunition and other personal equipment, and who are willing -- should there be a need -- to step up in defense of the Constitution of the United States. The leaders are simply community organizers whose leadership is based entirely upon the willing and conscientious following by the membership. They do not have any actual corporal or lawful authority.

The organization simply provides the framework to reach out to and contact such individuals.

In that case, they are not the militia. They are just a bunch of guys playing army.

[zhyla]

Why is it everybody wants to start/join a state militia but nobody wants it to be in submission to the state government? What good is a militia if it doesn't take orders from the civilian government? You just want to play army?

[onethumb]

Just start a group of preppers.

+1.

"Militia" is a very dangerous word, and can get you arrested rather quickly. In addition, the arrest of "Militia" types often makes great headlines for the anti-gun folks, who use the opportunity to then let everyone know that we need more laws banning them so that these crazies don't band together and cause mayhem.

Prepping for the 'zombie apocalypse' or preparing for a large natural disaster where services are non-existent and you want to be able to help your family and fellow man is much more benign.

Even in the unlikely event of an all-out revolution, training to survive, hide, communicate and organize in an urban environment are all more essential skills than using a firearm. The same skills you would need if you were prepping for a 'zombie apocalypse'. Given the current popularity of shows like Walking Dead, I think new people who aren't necessarily drawn to firearms as much as they are to survival could be brought into the fold. "Militia" only attracts a very specific type of person, and there aren't many of them.

[BluNorthern]

I'm my own Militia, and don't have time to "school" a bunch of urbanites on things their Dads should have taught them.

[dwightlooi]

Why do you want to form a militia? What is your intended purpose for this? What are you trying to accomplish?

• So Individuals can be assisted in becoming proficient in the use of their legally acquired and owned firearm(s)
• So individuals can be assisted in becoming proficient in defensive weapon tactics and tactics to defend others
• So Individuals can meet, discuss and be up to date on constitutional issues and issues of national interest.
• So Individuals -- who have made the commitment to owning and being proficient with a firearm, and to defending the constitution, can be contact should there be a need.
• So Individuals can be contacted to volunteer for social outreach and disaster relieve should there be a need.

It is completely ridiculous to suggest that the aforementioned is somehow nefarious and/or illegal.

[Chatterbox]

I'm my own Militia, and don't have time to "school" a bunch of urbanites on things their Dads should have taught them.

Being your own militia is like being your own orchestra.

[dwightlooi]

Why is it everybody wants to start/join a state militia but nobody wants it to be in submission to the state government? What good is a militia if it doesn't take orders from the civilian government? You just want to play army?

The members "take orders" -- as in obey laws -- the same way every other individual does. Not being an official arm of the government permits a free exchange of ideas, discussion of issues and adoption of individual positions.

Just like every individual, we are obligated to obey laws and the government only to the extent that these laws and the government remain legitimate and constitutional. When disaster strikes, or when government completely breaks and ignore the electoral and representative compact, being organized allows for quick mobilization for the obvious causes.

[taperxz]

[2nd Mass]

The first rule of Cal-gunners Militia is: you do not talk about Cal-gunners Militia.

The second rule of Cal-gunners Militia is: you DO NOT talk about Cal-gunners Militia!

This ^^^

/thread

[omgwtfbbq]

I think the use of the word "militia" conjures up a lot of negative imagery from the 90's.

I think an organization that does all of these things could be made and operated legally, just under a name other than "Militia".

[onethumb]

What has been seen cannot be unseen....

[Medic451]

I understand its illegal to form a militia under the CA penal code, but... Per definition arent most of us "militia" per the constitution, do we not have the right to be well regulated and bear arms? So is it possible that the CA penal code violates the constitution?