The gender gap & gun rights

[Marthor]

I agree that in the 2 party system, women will vote women's issue ahead of gun issues, but the polls indicate women are against gun rights in the same proportions. In other words, they aren't voting woman issues against their gun views.
Yes, the Republicans need to appeal to women issues, but there is also a gender gap on women's support of gun rights specifically.

I think we all agree that guns empower women even more than men. There are plenty of angles and stats that will appeal to win over women. They banned guns in England and Australia and rape and home invasion and other physical violent crime rates went up significantly. Having a gun empowers the woman to be able to defend herself, her kids and her home even against a bigger man.

[madjack956]

The Democrats seem to know how to speak the language of the vast majority of female voters in America.

The republican party could probably start by trying not to tell women what to do with their body for a good start.

Now, I'm not a big fan of killing fetuses. But trying to tell a 20 or 40 year old women that had an unfortunate mistake, that they are stuck and their life is going to change drastically, isn't going to win many votes.

Usually, that drastic change is not for the better with regards to a youngster.

I say, let them be. The day will come when they will have to answer for it.

[Trenchfoot]

I agree that in the 2 party system, women will vote women's issue ahead of gun issues, but the polls indicate women are against gun rights in the same proportions. In other words, they aren't voting woman issues against their gun views.
Yes, the Republicans need to appeal to women issues, but there is also a gender gap on women's support of gun rights specifically.

You don't need them to get on board with gun rights if they get on board for other issues.

As much as the GOP talking heads went on and on about Obama voters wanting "stuff", it wasn't about that. The GOP alienated every group of Americans besides white christian men and their wives.

People that are pro gay rights don't want "stuff".
People that don't think the government should force a woman to carry a rapist's baby, don't want "stuff".
People concerned about climate change, don't want stuff.
People that don't want a theocracy in America, don't want "stuff".
People that are tired of war, don't want "stuff".
People that don't want the 14th Amendment repealed, don't want "stuff".

Was there a part of his voting bloc that is dependent on government? Sure. But there were people on welfare in the deep south that voted Romney too.

It's time for the GOP to stop making excuses and realize that social issues are going to kill them in national elections. In 10-12 years, with the growing latino population, Texas will no longer be a sure thing. And in 2030 with latinos becoming 50% of the population of Texas, the White House will be forever gone unless the GOP moderates themselves on social issues.

[Steph]

The republican party could probably start by trying not to tell women what to do with their body for a good start.

Now, I'm not a big fan of killing fetuses. But trying to tell a 20 or 40 year old women that had an unfortunate mistake, that they are stuck and their life is going to change drastically, isn't going to win many votes.

Usually, that drastic change is not for the better with regards to a youngster.

I say, let them be. The day will come when they will have to answer for it.

This right here. Ideology is my biggest gripe with the Republican party (I'm independent but voted R). They all seem to be about small government and staying out of Joe American's life...except when it comes to Jane; and they think they can tell us what we can and can't do with our bodies based on THEIR ideology. We don't all share that same ideology and it's time they recognize that. And they did answer for it on Nov 6th unfortunately.

[Meplat]

You might be right.

However, you supply no research for your claims.

Some of it seems plausible based on my own subjective "feel" for these things.

However, there remain definite and deep gender lines in politics.

Not only regarding specific issues.

But also regarding larger, philosophical issues.

The whole "individualism vs. collectivism" issue is a stark case in point.

It is not a coincidence that Germany fought for their "Fatherland" and Russians fought for "Mother Russia."

Germany is now capitalism's (individualism's) champion in Europe today.

Russia: a failed attempt at collectivism that is now mimicking the xenophobic Nazism of pre-WWII Germany.

But read the book.

I encourage all to read it.

I do not agree with Lakoff's Democrat politics, but it is difficult to gainsay what he points out in this book.

(And yes, I do know that pre-WWII Germany was technically "Socialist." But in reality it was just a dictatorship led by a deranged, authoritarian "Father Figure" who used the cachet of then-trendy "socialism" to his rhetorical advantage.)

Some attitudes seem rooted in genetics and epigenetics, shored up of course by cultural conditioning and consciously espoused ideology.

[Gray Peterson]

You don't need them to get on board with gun rights if they get on board for other issues.

As much as the GOP talking heads went on and on about Obama voters wanting "stuff", it wasn't about that. The GOP alienated every group of Americans besides white christian men and their wives.

People that are pro gay rights don't want "stuff".
People that don't think the government should force a woman to carry a rapist's baby, don't want "stuff".
People concerned about climate change, don't want stuff.
People that don't want a theocracy in America, don't want "stuff".
People that are tired of war, don't want "stuff".
People that don't want the 14th Amendment repealed, don't want "stuff".

Was there a part of his voting bloc that is dependent on government? Sure. But there were people on welfare in the deep south that voted Romney too.

It's time for the GOP to stop making excuses and realize that social issues are going to kill them in national elections. In 10-12 years, with the growing latino population, Texas will no longer be a sure thing. And in 2030 with latinos becoming 50% of the population of Texas, the White House will be forever gone unless the GOP moderates themselves on social issues.

I know quite a few Obama voters who basically viewed it that way. Recriminating people for voting the way they did in 2012 is kinda stupid now. The presidential election is over.

Those "quite a few" Obama voters that I know are currently part of the pro-gun mobilization to stop the Feinstein ban (they also happen to hate her for being an opponent to the Senate privacy amendments to the NDAA), and for anyone to do a Brewer-style finger point or berate them is absolutely unhelpful.

[Extra411]

I think we all agree that guns empower women even more than men. There are plenty of angles and stats that will appeal to win over women. They banned guns in England and Australia and rape and home invasion and other physical violent crime rates went up significantly. Having a gun empowers the woman to be able to defend herself, her kids and her home even against a bigger man.

I've tried to present this argument sometimes to women, but I feel it has limited appeal. I've heard things like:

-We should deal with societal issues so people are less likely to become criminals, and there would be less of a need for a gun to defend yourself.

-Even if they were in a dangerous situation, they don't think having a gun would help. They feel it may escalate the conflict, or that they are not confident in their ability to wield a gun, or that they don't think they'll be able to point at/shoot another person. There are many reasons why some WOULDN'T want to use a gun.

-Some believe the dangers that widespread firearm access poses outweigh the need to have them to defend yourself. Here's where I usually hear the "lots of people die from gun accidents, many are children" and the "having firearms in the home is more dangerous than any good they will ever do".

I know some women who have personally been assaulted/stalked/nearly kidnapped by people, and they still would not prefer to possess a firearm, and I've met enough of them for me to think that trend of thought is not uncommon. I know of very few women who treats gun rights as civil rights. Even fewer would single-issue vote on gun rights compared to abortion.

[dave_cg]

I've tried to present this argument sometimes to women, but I feel it has limited appeal. I've heard things like:

-We should deal with societal issues so people are less likely to become criminals, and there would be less of a need for a gun to defend yourself.

-Even if they were in a dangerous situation, they don't think having a gun would help. They feel it may escalate the conflict, or that they are not confident in their ability to wield a gun, or that they don't think they'll be able to point at/shoot another person. There are many reasons why some WOULDN'T want to use a gun.

-Some believe the dangers that widespread firearm access poses outweigh the need to have them to defend yourself. Here's where I usually hear the "lots of people die from gun accidents, many are children" and the "having firearms in the home is more dangerous than any good they will ever do".

I know some women who have personally been assaulted/stalked/nearly kidnapped by people, and they still would not prefer to possess a firearm, and I've met enough of them for me to think that trend of thought is not uncommon. I know of very few women who treats gun rights as civil rights. Even fewer would single-issue vote on gun rights compared to abortion.

So you are saying they have been educated to recite the Brady talking points. I'm not surprised at that. Keep making your points. Think of it the way car companies engage in advertising wars -- if side 'A' plays their message over and over, then side 'B' needs to play their message over and over and over and over -- it's about number and frequency of advertising impressions.

[Meplat]

This right here. Ideology is my biggest gripe with the Republican party (I'm independent but voted R). They all seem to be about small government and staying out of Joe American's life...except when it comes to Jane; and they think they can tell us what we can and can't do with our bodies based on THEIR ideology. We don't all share that same ideology and it's time they recognize that. And they did answer for it on Nov 6th unfortunately.

Allow me to make some observations on this.

My mother was a schizophrenic. This made my childhood difficult to say the least. My life was hell until I was out on my own. My mother and I never got along.

That said, I must say that there are times in the life of every individual when your continued existence is entirely in the hands of others. When you are very young, when you are very old, and when you are very ill, your life depends entirely on the decisions of others. This is no different than when you are in the womb.

There are questions of whether you are worth keeping alive when you are old or sick; there are questions of whether you are worth keeping alive at other times. Even in light of what I have said about my mother, I would rather the decision be hers than the governments.

A lot of pro life people need to think long and hard about this. This is a family decision; the government has no place in it. If we give the government the right of life or death over a fetus, we give it the same right over the old and sick.

[SilverTauron]

I've tried to present this argument sometimes to women, but I feel it has limited appeal. I've heard things like:

-We should deal with societal issues so people are less likely to become criminals, and there would be less of a need for a gun to defend yourself.

-Even if they were in a dangerous situation, they don't think having a gun would help. They feel it may escalate the conflict, or that they are not confident in their ability to wield a gun, or that they don't think they'll be able to point at/shoot another person. There are many reasons why some WOULDN'T want to use a gun.

-Some believe the dangers that widespread firearm access poses outweigh the need to have them to defend yourself. Here's where I usually hear the "lots of people die from gun accidents, many are children" and the "having firearms in the home is more dangerous than any good they will ever do".

I know some women who have personally been assaulted/stalked/nearly kidnapped by people, and they still would not prefer to possess a firearm, and I've met enough of them for me to think that trend of thought is not uncommon. I know of very few women who treats gun rights as civil rights. Even fewer would single-issue vote on gun rights compared to abortion.

Here's the point on this:most women who have that attitude have been around people who they wouldn't trust with a potato gun.

A telling comment came from an ex gf of mine. When I dated her I carried regularly, and due to logistical circumstances I had to make her aware of my CCW status on the first night out. Two weeks later the topic of responsible gun safety came up, and she said at first she believed I was a show-off yahoo trying to play gunslinger. 14 days of responsible gun ownership later showed her that someone could own a gun and not wave it around or be an irresponsible moron.

From what I gather based on her and other women I've met and known, they consider firearms to be a tool much too powerful for our irresponsible society. Some of them have been around dim bulb guys who pulled out weapons and acted stupid to impress them ; everyone who has a gun is an ambassador for us for better or worse, and a lot of nitwits out there own hardware without the faintest idea of the 4 rules. The combination of horny guys and guns has created more anti rights voters then any politician. I personally know one chick who had a gun pointed at her head by a high school Rambo who thought he was the thug boss. She's a hard core anti today and I can't say its a surprise why.

Women who've grown up with responsible backgrounds in gun ownership don't share this opinion, but with families nowadays being divorced/ split this is a rare situation. If all a chick sees of gun ownership is idiocy and negligence, she'll think the media's right when the categorize us all as criminals waiting to happen.

[Extra411]

SilverTauron:

I think you are very correct in your observation; now that you mentioned it, I've also remembered many women who are antis have told me how people they know are irresponsible gun owners. Many are very surprised when I tell them I buy ammo in bulk, as apparently many gun owners they know don't even practice shooting, and only own a gun because it makes them "feel better".

[Gray Peterson]

Sounds like you are justifying a personal choice to be anti-civil liberties based on likeability of those who fight for those civil liberties.

Should abused women in third world country have "white man friendly" bulletin boards in order to attract broader support for their case? Should LGBT modify their message in order to appeal to "mainstream men?"

As a result of modifying of several different messages to appeal to "mainstream men", marriage for same sex couples by passed by statewide initiative/referenda in three states (Washington State, Maryland, and Maine).

Like-ability has a lot to do with perception of civil rights battles in a political & legislative arena.

[Nyanman]

So, how do we influence these women and thus influence the polls and thus influence the elections? If a majority of women don't support the 2A, it's the greatest threat.

Seeing as I am not a woman, I wouldn't know.
Personally, I would pose this question just to the lady Calgunners, since their input would be more..beneficial and relevant.

I don't live in LA, so asking me about things in LA isn't going to be of any help to you. I'm not a soccer mom, I wouldn't begin to know how to change their opinions. I'm not female, so asking me what being a woman is like would get you nothing but guesses. Instead, it would be better to pose these questions to people who may best be able to answer them.

[nicki]

Gender gap.

Women's views on guns are changing, the problem sadly is many gun owners and gun shop dealers.

While the shooting sports do tend to be a boy's club, unlike other boy's clubs, women generally are welcome.

The problem is many women automatically assume we are like the "country clubs" where male businessmen keep women out.

I run a Pink Pistols chapter in San Jose, overall I would estimate that about 40 percent of the people who show up at my shoots are female. On my meetup group, even though we are a LBGT gun group, open minded straights are welcome and probably 30 percent of my members fall into that group.

The reality is most women are clueless about firearms, once they get some hands on, we can at least get their ear.

I use a 22 cal pistol and a .22cal AR to start with. The .22cal AR is popular and when funds permit, I will get another one with a 16 inch barrel and collapsable stock.

The .22 versions of the ARs are our friends because they open the door that our "ergonomic rifles" are not so "evil".

When we spend time, we can talk them. Women do seek safety and can be misled by fear tactics. However once they realize they have been lied to, they are like pit bulls.

When women realize that anti rights forces are using the guise of protecting their children to steal their children's future, the women will turn on them.

How we make that case is something I and others are working on.

Nicki

[Funtimes]

Sandy Froman ran the NRA as its president. Posts like many here are counter to including women.

Having fun with guns, shooting, blowing things up, and hanging around good honest people - who are not *******s is what I have seen bringing women into shooting. Explaining self-defense and promoting empowerment are what we do here.

Probably 30% of my classes or more are females. I've never had one leave unhappy or not looking forward to shooting with me again.