The gender gap & gun rights

[IVC]

There's a BIG difference between trying to divide with say class warfare and the opposite of trying to reach out and bring together. The call here is to find ways to reach out to women.

There are two aspects to this debate: (1) the hobby aspect, and (2) the civil rights aspect.

While one can say with impunity "I am not into hobby of shooting," there is an ethical and moral liability to say "I am against your civil rights." For the former we need all the outreach we can get since it's about "hearts and minds." For the latter, outreach is only one piece of the overall strategy since it's about something that belongs to us whether they like it or not.

To the extent we are fighting for civil rights, women, like everyone else, have to understand that fighting against civil rights is bigotry no matter how unappealing those rights are. Not being coddled on a gun forum is not an excuse for a bigoted stance.

[farfromhome63]

Guys this is easy to fix. Do what I did, find cool wife, buy her a pistol of her prefrence hers happens to be a 1911 45acp and let her put pink grips on it.
Let her show it off to all her girlfriends.
Fill her mind and all our conversations with gun control and wala her facebook becomes a advertising machine for pro women gun rights. Donski!

[mosinnagantm9130]

The term used to describe independent swing women voters is "soccer moms". Most kids raised today are in single mother homes. I'd use the term "single moms" to describe the typical democrat women voters. They don't have a husband and use government assistance as their stand-in husband helper.

I agree with you completely, but we're talking about WOMEN here. Women aren't exactly known for rational, logical thinking, especially when it comes to little children, ponies, their vaginas and the aftermaths of school shootings. Didn't a considerable amount of women vote for Obama also? Women operate on emotion and that's why they'll never be on board with pro-2A folk even if you spell it out for them.

GUNS ARE SCARY!!!!!1111

19th Amendments to the Constitution were the early accomplishments of the Progressive Movement. They knew they could not take control of the country with only men in charge.

It's take them 100 years, but they've nearly destroyed this country.

Get a woman store manager and a couple of educated sales women and a few gun loving queers

Wow guys, these posts are a great way to win over converts! Lets just insult women, equal rights, and LGBT all at the same time! That'll make em wanna join up with us!

Those attitudes are exactly why there is a "gender gap".

Drop the anti-women, anti-gay stance and we'll be fine. Keep up this BS and we will lose.

[BRoss]

After looking at an anti-NRA white house petition signatures I see most of the them are women signing it. This reality has made me come to grips with the fact that women voters are a bigger threat to the constitution than i realized before.

look at the signatures and see mostly women

The 2 most recent appointees to the supreme court were women. Obama could have easily appointed a liberal man judge, but his goal is to pander to women voters. The "war on women" theme in 2012 was manufactured and successful because no matter what, all the Dems need to do is get more women votes to win.

So, how do we influence these women and thus influence the polls and thus influence the elections? If a majority of women don't support the 2A, it's the greatest threat.

The term used to describe independent swing women voters is "soccer moms". Most kids raised today are in single mother homes. I'd use the term "single moms" to describe the typical democrat women voters. They don't have a husband and use government assistance as their stand-in husband helper.

School shootings are a threat to their kids. We need to convince all these soccer moms and single moms that guns can protect their kids in schools. It can be additional police or security guards. It can be letting teachers use their CCW permit on school grounds. It can also be having a few volunteer teachers be trained with Tasers as part of the solution.

If we aren't reaching across gender lines better, we are losing on all fronts.

Poll Link

"There's also a gender gap, with 41% of men saying say support major restrictions or an outright ban, with that number jumping to 62% among women."

I agree with you completely, but we're talking about WOMEN here. Women aren't exactly known for rational, logical thinking, especially when it comes to little children, ponies, their vaginas and the aftermaths of school shootings. Didn't a considerable amount of women vote for Obama also? Women operate on emotion and that's why they'll never be on board with pro-2A folk even if you spell it out for them.

GUNS ARE SCARY!!!!!1111

You know you can get an FFL and you can open a shop that cater to women. Get a woman store manager and a couple of educated sales women and a few gun loving queers and to show the girls how great they would look with a James Bond gun that goes with their outfit and their shoes and you'll be a rich man.

If any women are lurking this forum, posts like these aren't going to make them want to jump right in to the 2A community. Just FYI.

[Marthor]

Some good pro-2A female spokespersons that I know of are:

New Mexico Governor Susana Martinez
Texas Congresswoman Suzanna Gratia Hupp

[Meplat]

I agree.

There does seem to be a strong biological factor, however, that we need to figure out: Moral Politics : How Liberals and Conservatives Think.

Most folks in 2AM circles have just been ignoring this for years.

Occasionally I bring it up.

Result: [Crickets chirping].

We had better get used to expanding our arsenal of "concepts critical to promoting armed self-defense" or else we will continue to alienate and insult 50% of the electorate.

What we have been doing has not really worked too well.

Time to upgrade our conceptual and rhetorical arsenal.

The women of the human race have contributed to its continued fitness by bringing forth, nurturing, and protecting human life. Women are gatherers and nurturers; men are hunters and warriors. It has been that way for hundreds of thousands of years. Role changes have only impinged upon our evolution for a few thousand, and serious blurring of the lines only for a few hundred. Inbred instincts do not change that fast.

Women look at defending themselves and their families as a one on one thing. Men think like warriors. If things go badly for his family, clan, tribe, or nation, a man sees the need of having battle implements that multiply his personal ability to protect them against superior odds; women, not so much.

Women and men think differently, but the way both think is better for their role in perpetuating the human race. But sometimes it almost seem like we are different species.

[SgtDinosaur]

Marion Hammer didn't seem to make much of a difference.

Marion was elected in 1995, after the ban was already in effect. Other than that I don't remember specifically what she did.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marion_P._Hammer

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-05-17/marion-hammer-the-nras-most-powerful-weapon

[penguinofsleep]

can't tell if half of these posts are sarcastic or serious...

[readysetgo]

Some good pro-2A female spokespersons that I know of are:

New Mexico Governor Susana Martinez
Texas Congresswoman Suzanna Gratia Hupp

Bad example bud, unless your claiming that these ladies are "single mother homes" with no husbands living off government assistance.

[SilverTauron]

The dilemma of bringing gun rights to women is impossible to solve so long as the GOP is the only electable party bothering to publicly support the 2nd Amendment.

Note that I'm not claiming the GOP is a champion of gun rights here;but in terms of marketing, the party at least gives enough of a damn about gun rights to consider the matter rationally. Democrats as a collective want weapons banned or under lock and key, period. This presents an ugly choice for the female voter, because female centric political issues are championed by Democrats. Put another way, Democrats are just as regressive on gun control as Republicans are on reproductive issues.

Thus, a woman has to choose between gun rights and reproductive rights. Most women don't own guns, so by default they choose B-which is all in for Democrats, full stop. More than one young woman and feminist-supporting guy voted for Obama because they want a liberal supreme court to guarantee Roe Vs Wade for posterity.

Until we can get the left to embrace gun rights-which is never at this point-women will always choose their own gender rights over gun rights, which will screw us all in the long run. Nothing less then changing our party dynamics will fix this.

[Marthor]

Bad example bud, unless your claiming that these ladies are "single mother homes" with no husbands living off government assistance.

I've heard them both speak on 2A and they have great personal stories. They don't need to be single mothers to appeal more to all the soccer and single moms.

[Tarn_Helm]

Gender and political leanings

The women of the human race have contributed to its continued fitness by bringing forth, nurturing, and protecting human life. Women are gatherers and nurturers; men are hunters and warriors. It has been that way for hundreds of thousands of years. Role changes have only impinged upon our evolution for a few thousand, and serious blurring of the lines only for a few hundred. Inbred instincts do not change that fast.

Women look at defending themselves and their families as a one on one thing. Men think like warriors. If things go badly for his family, clan, tribe, or nation, a man sees the need of having battle implements that multiply his personal ability to protect them against superior odds; women, not so much.

Women and men think differently, but the way both think is better for their role in perpetuating the human race. But sometimes it almost seem like we are different species.

You might be right.

However, you supply no research for your claims.

Some of it seems plausible based on my own subjective "feel" for these things.

However, there remain definite and deep gender lines in politics.

Not only regarding specific issues.

But also regarding larger, philosophical issues.

The whole "individualism vs. collectivism" issue is a stark case in point.

It is not a coincidence that Germany fought for their "Fatherland" and Russians fought for "Mother Russia."

Germany is now capitalism's (individualism's) champion in Europe today.

Russia: a failed attempt at collectivism that is now mimicking the xenophobic Nazism of pre-WWII Germany.

But read the book.

I encourage all to read it.

I do not agree with Lakoff's Democrat politics, but it is difficult to gainsay what he points out in this book.

(And yes, I do know that pre-WWII Germany was technically "Socialist." But in reality it was just a dictatorship led by a deranged, authoritarian "Father Figure" who used the cachet of then-trendy "socialism" to his rhetorical advantage.)

Some attitudes seem rooted in genetics and epigenetics, shored up of course by cultural conditioning and consciously espoused ideology.

[SilverTauron]

You might be right.

However, you supply no research for your claims.

Some of it seems plausible based on my own subjective "feel" for these things.

However, there remain definite and deep gender lines in politics.

Not only regarding specific issues.

But also regarding larger, philosophical issues.

The whole "individualism vs. collectivism" issue is a stark case in point.

It is not a coincidence that Germany fought for their "Fatherland" and Russians fought for "Mother Russia."

Germany is now capitalism's (individualism's) champion in Europe today.

Russia: a failed attempt at collectivism that is now mimicking the xenophobic Nazism of pre-WWII Germany.

But read the book.

I encourage all to read it.

I do not agree with Lakoff's Democrat politics, but it is difficult to gainsay what he points out in this book.

(And yes, I do know that pre-WWII Germany was technically "Socialist." But in reality it was just a dictatorship led by a deranged, authoritarian "Father Figure" who used the cachet of then-trendy "socialism" to his rhetorical advantage.)

Some attitudes seem rooted in genetics and epigenetics, shored up of course by cultural conditioning and consciously espoused ideology.

The problem is not ideaology.A .22LR pistol is fun to shoot no matter what your political leanings are. How far you'll go to support policies which allow people to own and shoot them is where the politics come into focus.

I've never met a girl yet who disliked shooting afterwards.

That said,for most personal choice of which party to support comes down to a choice. For most men supporting gun rights isn't an idealogical conflict. Liberal men who believe in the principles of government mandated equality and security don't feel conflicted voting against politicians who back gun rights, and conservative men who back individualism against a large central government obviously have no issue voting libertarian or GOP.

We come to a problem when it comes to women-centric issues and politics. If a woman wants greater attention to female-centric issues in Washington, she's voting Democrat whether she wants to or not. For many women they find gender rights to be a non-negotiable issue which supersedes all others. Unless the Republican Party emerges from the 1950s , they'll be superseded themselves-and they're the only national party with gun rights in the charter.

[Tarn_Helm]

learning to talk and listen

The problem is not ideaology.A .22LR pistol is fun to shoot no matter what your political leanings are. How far you'll go to support policies which allow people to own and shoot them is where the politics come into focus.

I've never met a girl yet who disliked shooting afterwards.

That said,for most personal choice of which party to support comes down to a choice. For most men supporting gun rights isn't an idealogical conflict. Liberal men who believe in the principles of government mandated equality and security don't feel conflicted voting against politicians who back gun rights, and conservative men who back individualism against a large central government obviously have no issue voting libertarian or GOP.

We come to a problem when it comes to women-centric issues and politics. If a woman wants greater attention to female-centric issues in Washington, she's voting Democrat whether she wants to or not. For many women they find gender rights to be a non-negotiable issue which supersedes all others. Unless the Republican Party emerges from the 1950s , they'll be superseded themselves-and they're the only national party with gun rights in the charter.

Unless we learn to understand what drives the other 50% of the electorate and why, we Second Amendment supporters will not become able to enlist large-scale support from female voters in America.

Ideology seems to have biological roots.

Culture and history also play a role.

Lakoff's linguistic research can teach all of us a lot--men and women--about ourselves.

This is just one area we need to map out and figure out if we are going to succeed in enlisting the Second Amendment support of female voters in America.

It might sound like a trite, sexist cliche, but ask any woman: How you talk about something matters a lot.

Equally important is how you listen: You Just Don't Understand: Women and Men in Conversation .

There is a lot of homework to do.

It is no coincidence that Lakoff, author of Moral Politics and Democrat, is trying to figure out how to package the Democrat message.

We need to learn how to do what he advises the Democrat party to do.

The Democrats seem to know how to speak the language of the vast majority of female voters in America.

[wildhawker]

Somebody sticky this.

-Brandon

Unless we learn to understand what drives the other 50% of the electorate and why, we Second Amendment supporters will not become able to enlist large-scale support from female voters in America.

Ideology seems to have biological roots.

Culture and history also play a role.

Lakoff's linguistic research can teach all of us a lot--men and women--about ourselves.

This is just one area we need to map out and figure out if we are going to succeed in enlisting the Second Amendment support of female voters in America.

It might sound like a trite, sexist cliche, but ask any woman: How you talk about something matters a lot.

Equally important is how you listen: You Just Don't Understand: Women and Men in Conversation .

There is a lot of homework to do.

It is no coincidence that Lakoff, author of Moral Politics and Democrat, is trying to figure out how to package the Democrat message.

We need to learn how to do what he advises the Democrat party to do.

The Democrats seem to know how to speak the language of the vast majority of female voters in America.