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Yellowfin: The 2A in its true intent of what it protects can be summed up in one word: parity. Self defense means self defense from ANYTHING, and parity is being on level playing field with whatever threat may be. -
The devil is unfortunately in the details. There is currently an initiative circulating that has about half of what you talk about, but there is a lot of context you are missing. If the ballot passes (it won't) it would actually create a more restrictive licensing scheme than we already have. It would remove protections of Due Process and it would put more onerous burdens on applicants. Check out this thread for the ballot initiative. http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=520799
And if you don't want to go through the whole thread then you should just take a look at this post which refutes the initiative and exposes how bad it really is - http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...&postcount=556
The other, somewhat ironic part, is that the antis wouldn't see anything you said as a compromise - they would see it as "not strict enough".member: Electronic Frontier Foundation, NRA, CGF
Deer Hunting Rifles? "Let's get rid of those too" - Adam Keigwin, Chief of Staff for Senator Leland YeeComment
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member: Electronic Frontier Foundation, NRA, CGF
Deer Hunting Rifles? "Let's get rid of those too" - Adam Keigwin, Chief of Staff for Senator Leland YeeComment
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to Calguns: what fatsteve proposed may have been done before, it may not make any difference with our elected representatives, but I will sign each and every petition someone submits if it works toward restoring our rights.
I would never disuade anyone from trying every avenue of approach. Why? It can't hurt anything, and it only makes us stronger in the eyes of those who represent us. We (Calguns) may have systems in place for dealing with these infringements, but they are slow. In the mean time, lets flood the capitols with letters and petitions and let them know that we care.
fatsteve, get it going and you have another signature from me.Comment
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Welcome fatsteve! I too am extremely frustrated with CA gun laws and gun control in general. Seeing as I am unemployed with little hope of my trade getting busy anytime soon, I have been spending a lot of time doing 'internet activism' and attracting attention by wearing my NRA, GOA, and second amendment t-shirts and hats around town. Trying to be as polite and patient as I can with everyone I encounter. By doing this I hope to dispel some of the myths like the redneck gun-nut waiting for a chance to shoot off a gun. Or the 'right-wing militia type' running around in cammies and tactical gear. I take every opportunity to get the door for anybody and if asked about my shirt or hat with pro 2A slogans and logos, I try to be as easy going as I can. This is how I work on lessening the choke hold on our rights every day. Other than that, join every group you feel can be of help to us and you can afford to donate to, keep up on all legislation coming down the pipes and keep your guns in working condition at all times. WOOP-WOOP!!
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it." Thomas PaineComment
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Welcome, it's great to see young people into firearms. Without young people, the gun culture will die off in a few generations. My advice to you is: don't get too emotionally involved. Getting all worked up over something that is so fundamentally wrong, yet you can do nothing to change, will only harm you in the end. You did not lose this fight. It was lost long before most of us were even born. The reason those important battles were lost was because the majority of people (yes even gun owners) back in the 1910's to the 1930's era (when America became Communist in disguise: #1, 2, 4, 5, 6, 10 already done) had a very unhealthy respect and belief that the people in "authority" had the country's/people's best interests & were smarter than them. There was also a lot of fear due to the big crash of '29 that was engineered by the elites. They also put their trust into "rights" organizations that ended up selling them out, many times. The sheep then allowed the elites back then to: tax their income (but not the rich of course), ban certain drugs, ban (in effect) certain guns, ban alcohol, ban gold, etc etc. None of these new laws were designed to hamper the lifestyles of the rich, just control the masses.
To understand why things are the way they are today, you should study anti-gun history. Start with the US Fed anti-gun laws, as they are the most harmful to Liberty. It's good to have some basic knowledge of what you can't legally own now. Here's a road map to your loss of firearms freedom in the US. The un-Constitutional BS started in 1927 with the ban on sending pistols in the US Mail, next was the monstrous 1934 NFA, next the 1938 FFA, the 1958 MSA, then the fully Communist 1968 GCA (the bible of the modern gun banners), then the 1976 ITAR/USML, then the 1986 FOPA/MG ban, then the 1986 Steel core ammo ban, then the 1990 CCA/GFSZ/Unsoeld 922R, then the 1994 Brady/NICS registration law, then the 1997 DVOGB/Lautenberg, then the 2001 911/un-Patriotic act. Of course that does not include all the BS presidential executive orders & executive branch controlled ATF rulings & "interpretations", that use those laws(tools) to further un-Constitutionally restrict your rights.
Then study anti-gun laws in the rest of the world. That will show you how things will probably end in the US. In Australia, Canada & the UK anti-gun laws followed the predictable patterns: registration, restriction & finally confiscation after public outcry to mass shootings. See: Port Arthur, Montreal, Hungerford and Dunblane for a few cause & effect lessons. The negative "Bubba"/criminal/poacher/mall ninja/survivalist public image only hurts the cause of legal & responsible gun owners.
What can be done? Sadly not too much. Some here will say that all you have to do is to vote the Republican party ticket and donate money to groups like the NRA & everything will be taken care of for you. History has proven otherwise. Remember that W bush had 4 years of Republican control of the Congress. He could have pushed for repealing of all Federal anti-gun laws. Not one bill was pushed to repeal any anti-gun law. The AWB had a built in 10 year sunset clause. W could have rescinded all anti-gun executive orders & ATF rulings/interpretations, with the stroke of the pen. Not one was done. Some will say "that's just not how it works", but they are wrong. The Congress passes a bill & the POTUS signs it into law. Simple. Why was that not done?
The Republican party is not loyal to the Constitution & neither is the Democratic party. On top of that, the Republican party does not believe in Individual Rights except for the ultra rich elite. The Democratic party does not either. The sad truth is that the Republican party is only loyal to the rich elite, mega corporations & pushes for a total police state to protect and expand their vested interests. The Republican or Democratic party does not want an armed population.
Some will say that the SCOTUS is the key for US gun owners to get all their lost rights back. I find this very doubtful. How hard is it to overturn most if not all US anti-gun laws by one simple ruling that they are an "infringement"? At the current pace, by the time they get around to fighting important laws such as the NFA (if they even choose to do so), most likely all projectile weapons (maybe not rail-guns) like firearms will be totally obsolete. Nano type body armor will be very effective against low power projectiles. Directed Energy Weapons will be the current state of the art. Provided of course that the Republic lasts that long, not very likely at this rate. Remember that until 1934 US citizens could legally own all the same weapons that the US military used. At the current pace of anti-gun laws do you think US citizens will ever be allowed to own effective modern weapons? The 2A is not at all about allowing the killing of deer, but to protect all your rights from your government.
Try not to get all your info from one source, as they all have a degree of spin. The Small Arms Review/MGN is good to read, but a bit biased towards dealers. My spin seems to be the worst kind here, Libertarian. Check out the work of Neal Knox (RIP) & Vin Suprynowicz for a no compromise look at the gun rights issue in the US. Good luckComment
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Welcome to CalGuns FatSteve and CaptainSlav!
We value your suggestions and your fresh, innocent enthusiasm.
Multiple times over the years CalGuns has mounted petition signing, mail, email and phone calls to Legislators and the Governor and visits to the Capitol to observe committee hearings and actually meet Legislators.
There are a few times that this activity seemed to make some difference in fighting back some bad gun bills. Probably the paid professional lobbyists from CRPA and the NRA made more difference behind the scenes in pulling the levers of legislative power.
It would seem that at this point in time the best, most productive path to restore the 2nd Amendment is to fight bad, stupid gun laws in the courts. This takes time. And money to pay for legal fees. And time.
Here's a pretty good list of current legal fights in California and across the Nation.
And a good foundation of Present California gun law and how we got here.
And to keep track the the Legislative session that has just started.
Once again, Welcome.
Now get to reading!Better Way to Search CalGuns - https://www.google.com/cse/home?cx=0...78:pzxbzjzh1zk
CA Bill Search - https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov
California Rifle and Pistol Association - http://crpa.org/
Sacramento County Sheriff Concealed Carry Info - Search 'Concealed Weapons Permit Information Sacramento'
Second Amendment Foundation - http://www.saf.org
Animated US Map Showing Progress of Concealed Carry Laws 1986 to 2021 http://www.gun-nuttery.com/rtc.phpComment
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+1 to this. New ideas and energy are always appreciated but take some time to read up on what is already being done. Part of the benefit of petition initiatives is to show a united front on the 2nd Am. But you should know how some of these battles are already being fought. This way you can decide if you want to add support to these battles or devise strategies of your own and see if you can garner support for those.
Btw, a challenge to the large capacity mag ban is already in the works. Get to cracking on your research and see if this approach is something you can support. I applaud your willingness to engage our elected officials but be aware that many our stubborn and ignorant even in the face of logic. Our California US Senators are the most glaring examples."When you get the (men) to the range, you just get the men. But when you bring the (women) to the range, you get the (whole family). And that's what's going to save our 2nd Amendment."--Dianna Liedorff
"Since self-preservation is the 1st law of nature, we assert the...right to self-defense. The Constitution...clearly affirms the right of every American...to bear arms. And as Americans, we will not give up a single right guaranteed under the Constitution." --Malcolm XComment
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Welcome, you've found the right place to be. Stay motivated and involved. Ignore those that espouse doom and gloom about our rights and where we're headed (battered gun owners).
Contribute financially if you can and if you're not already an NRA member, JOIN!
Regards.sigpic
ET1 - U.S. Navy, Retired
________________________________________
Politicians take note...
"I do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies,
foreign and domestic..."Comment
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Wow, thanks everyone for a huge wave of support and interest. Like I said, im really just throwing ideas at the wall right now, but I do want to throw a pettion in to the mix, and see if I can get support from some figureheads of the shooting sports and web personalities. I will definately Contribute to other projects in progress that will further our second amendment rights in the beautifull state of California.
I look at this like trying to push a cart through a mine field, the more pushing one, the faster it goes, but if it hits a mine, so what. But the more carts being pushed, the more likley one will get through. And the more people we get on board, the more carts we can push faster, maybe even get an MRAP and just all ride that to the other side.Comment
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Let's put your carts metaphor in terms of physics as an additional metaphor. You need to make sure you have a well-built sturdy cart with good wheels so it doesn't lose direction. Then you want people to get on that cart so it can gain mass and inertia. Then you get more people behind that cart to apply force, accelerate, and gain momentum. Now provided that you've set the cart in the right direction, we hope it makes impact on the proper area.
Many carts may seem nice but precision high-powered rifles with well-made ammo are better for long shots than shotguns filled with birdshot.'
Hope you appreciate the additional metaphors."When you get the (men) to the range, you just get the men. But when you bring the (women) to the range, you get the (whole family). And that's what's going to save our 2nd Amendment."--Dianna Liedorff
"Since self-preservation is the 1st law of nature, we assert the...right to self-defense. The Constitution...clearly affirms the right of every American...to bear arms. And as Americans, we will not give up a single right guaranteed under the Constitution." --Malcolm XComment
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I stand corrected! NYC is indeed what I was thinking of but lumped in the rest of the state with it.
+1111111 on the "read, read, read" part. Without Cal-Guns I honestly don't know how many laws I'd accidentally or ignorantly be breaking right now, and I would be totally blind to some of the real important issues going on in the country right now, such as F&F (shoutout to Vincewarde, thanks man!!).Yellowfin: The 2A in its true intent of what it protects can be summed up in one word: parity. Self defense means self defense from ANYTHING, and parity is being on level playing field with whatever threat may be.Comment
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www.christopherjhoffman.com
The Second Amendment is the one right that is so fundamental that the inability to exercise it, should the need arise, would render all other rights null and void. Dead people have no rights.
Magna est veritas et praevalebitComment
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