What do you think about allowing under 21s to get pistol and CCW?

[pitchbaby]

If you can vote, if you can die for your country, you should be allowed to have and carry the arm of your choice, in the manner you choose

THAT^^^

When I was 18, I didn't own a gun and didn't want a gun. When I was in my mid 20's, I kinda' wanted one, but didn't want to spend the money. Now that I am older, have the money and the time to learn how to use it right, I own a few and carry them when/where permitted.

My point, some people at that age are going to want one and some aren't. I am fairly impressed when I meet the younger types who actually would want to carry one because from all that I can tell, they have their right head about them. Is that always the case... probably not... but to weed them out by flat denial seems like a terribly unfair way to handle it when you consider our government will throw them into the fray half a world away.

[Stryprod]

This is unrelated to the original post, but I hate it when people say "driving is a privilege" when it's most definitely not. Here's a good clarification of the differences: http://www.vinsuprynowicz.com/?p=776

You know what is funny, I bet you and I are nearly 100% on the same page if we ever talked over a beer.

That being said, and I hate to say it, but "driving is a privilege, not a right" is an idiom. Whether you agree with it or not is another matter. It has a common meaning and understanding amongst English speaking people in the Country... just like the word clip or bullet unfortunately. Well those are words and not phrases, but you get my drift.

[Liberty1]

I want my 11 year old to be able to buy a spare mag at 7-11 for her P22 and then met me at the range after school. Answer your question?

[Meplat]

I'm very tired right now and I hope you will forgive me if some of the stuff I'm typing isn't very clear. But this happened this morning (yeah 12-4am).

In short, I went to karaoke yesterday with friends who just graduated from high school and some random dudes just came into our room and did a bunch of weird stuff (they looked creepy and just sat down next to my female friends and tried to talk to them). We were uncomfortable with the situation so we kindly asked them to leave but they came back later and we asked them to leave again. Apparently they were waiting for us to leave when I was going to the bathroom. Luckily they left since we stayed there for so long.

I'm very glad no one was hurt in the situation but I was definitely afraid someone would get hurt and that would be us because they were bigger than us and in such a tight environment I was afraid they might have knives.

It's not like if I have a CCW I will draw on them but I feel very insecure at that time but if situation arises I would wish I have something that I can defend myself and my friends with.

I happened to have a Victorinox with me but I don't think I will be able to deploy it on time and we'd be dead if they were actually bad guys. You can argue that in such a tight environment there's nothing I can use besides my fists but in some other situations (like them waiting for us) I feel that a CCW might give me another option if our lives are in danger.

I do plan to get pepper spray in the near future (cause I spent a fortune on my first AR and I am low on spending on other stuff). Well, at least it's something. But I mean, I dunno how a pepper spray will help in a tight environment. I do agree a gun wouldn't work either as we'd all be deaf and dead if they had knives.

I believe CCW shall be shall-issued and the government needs to have special permits for under 21s to get a handgun (I don't care even if I have to take a year long class at school before getting it). Thoughts?

[bohoki]

i say if you can be charged as an adult you might as well get the benefits

[PsychGuy274]

As far as I'm concerned, whenever society says you're an adult, you should be considered an adult in all ways. That includes carrying guns and renting cars.

[Meplat]

That is your nephew and you know him intimately. That is why I advise parental permission and a psyc eval.

While I'd agree with the very first part of your statement, I find that I'm very uncomfortable with the idea of 99% of "? -> whomever ? carrying without benefit of any self control training". This comes with maturity and experience.
My nephew is 18 and I put a gun in his hand when he was 7. He's had all the training afforded and I still wouldn't want him carrying a weapon on a daily venue. The judgement is just not there.
Rio

[aklover_91]

Rights is rights. I'm an adult, legally. I was a boy scout. I'm still involved in scouts as an adult leader. I've never stolen a damn thing in my life, and I've never instigated a fight.

If you're going to try and tell me I can drive a car, I can vote, I could be drafted for god's sake, but that I don't deserve to carry a weapon to defend myself?

I'm going to tell you to pound effin sand. Stupid people come in all shapes, sizes, and ages; an extra arbitrary limitation based on three years difference doesn't pass the smell test. If that's the logic you're going to use, you might as well switch sides because it's the same BS the antis have been preaching forever.

I'd imagine, minus a few "spoiled?" ones, it would take a lot of responsibility to be 18 and afford a handgun.

I'm twenty, I own four, and I work retail. When I buy a gun it usually means a whole bunch of Top Ramen for the next few weeks, but it's not impossible for me to afford them. And that's handguns, as far as guns in general go I'm at thirteenish.

[Carnivore]

Hell I know 18 year olds that are really on the ball and 50+ year olds that are so scatter brained I wouldn't trust them with a empty water pistol. 18 is fine and should be the minimum limit at which a person can buy a gun. Right to carry was already giving at birth.

[PsychGuy274]

That is your nephew and you know him intimately. That is why I advise parental permission and a psyc eval.

A psych eval for what? Maturity? It doesn't exist.

And parental permission for a constitutional right AFTER society says you're an adult? Did you ask your mommy if it was OK for you to buy smokes porn and to go out an vote when you turned 18?

[safewaysecurity]

In California you can get a CCW at 18 and a handgun at 18. Legally speaking of course doesn't mean it's easy. I fee like I am responsible enough to carry but I would obviously train until I felt comfortable enough in my abilities to act under stress.

[Meplat]

A psych eval for what? Maturity? It doesn't exist.

I am not a psycoligist, but my brother is, and he says it can be done quite easily.

And parental permission for a constitutional right AFTER society says you're an adult? Did you ask your mommy if it was OK for you to buy smokes porn and to go out an vote when you turned 18?

If you read my post you will see that I was going down to 13 years old. I have no problem with 18 year olds, the brain is much farther along by that time. If you can go to the sandbox, by definition, you can pack a gun.

P.S. I couldn't vote or buy a beer when I was 18, but they drafted me when I was 19. Bad business that.

[Funtimes]

As far as I'm concerned, whenever society says you're an adult, you should be considered an adult in all ways. That includes carrying guns and renting cars.

I have def done more stupid stuff in a rental after 21 :P then before... the last incident was using a mini van as a barricade as we practiced snatch and grabs with full auto weapons lol.

[resident-shooter]

lol the reaction of a gun forum was too predictable. I suggest telling this to the people on the other side

[Anchors]

I think they should be able to CCW whatever they want, however they want. The following story as evidence, I never wanted to carry a firearm when I was 18.
I knew I wasn't responsible enough (or rather, the people around me weren't...or a combination of the two).

On the flip side, when I wanted to start carrying (and owning my own firearms), I actually became a much more responsible person. I gained a whole new respect for laws, the constitution, and politics. I started truly understanding the "avoid physical conflict at all costs" mentality, even if I knew about it before.
I would rather run than fight now and I think that is a good thing (if I can, of course).

1. group of college aged friends have party and invite friends who are like them.
2. a friend in that group, without realizing the consequences, invites a friend (not college student, not responsible, etc) who is "outside" the comfort zone(race, socio-economic status, pants on the ground type of BS) of the original group.
3. downfall...this friend brings his own group of friends, and calamity ensues as the original group is VERY upset with the unwelcome cast.
4. typically fist fights, broken bottles, vandalized cars and broken window is the worst I've seen (til Halloween 08).
.

I'm sorry about your friend...
The rest of this post has nothing to do with that situation in particular and I think the people who killed him should rot in prison...

As far as the criteria you provided, let me spin it from a different perspective.
When I was younger my friends and I would be the random group you talk about that knew one or two people there and often times we got into fights with older "frat" or "bro" kids, but that wasn't because of our race, socio-economic status, or any saggy clothing. We all looked pretty normal I guess. Some of us had a lot of tattoos or wore hoodies everywhere, but we really weren't "out of place". You wouldn't stare at us in a lecture hall or anything. Most of us didn't drink or do drugs, I guess that was "weird" compared to others our age. Anytime we were politely asked to leave when we only knew a few people, we were more than happy to oblige... For some reason, these types of guys always felt the need to start something with one of our friends in some testosterone/alcohol induced rage to show all the girls how tough they were or something. It usually had almost nothing to do with our mere presence there. It was rarely "hey, get out of here!" and was more often "I'm going to make smartass comments about this person until they notice and then try to get in their face".
Along with whatever idiot friends they recruited, they usually ended up getting beat up (and being really surprised about it) because while we never wanted to start any problems, we also weren't going to let a 250 pound college roid head (or a couple of them) beat up a 16 year old kid. That just isn't right and we always figured if they weren't going to fight fair, why should we?

I know you were talking about non-college Hispanic/Black gang members or whatever, but my point is that that has nothing to do with it and there are two sides to a lot of those stories (not the one you listed, because it is pretty obvious that the people who shot your friend were human garbage). Just don't always assume the college kids throwing the party are the reasonable and responsible ones. Economic/educational status has little to do with whether or not someone is a douche bag.

Also, I no longer subscribe the notion that this is a good idea or necessary and I haven't in years. I don't like bars or parties mostly because of my experiences with drunken tough-guy idiots, so now I completely avoid them. Problem solved. This was just a recap of my youth, which was more or less filled with stupid crap like the situation I mentioned above. I grew up near ASU campus (read: notorious "party" school), so that only exacerbated the problem.

everyone is different too and mature at different rates

Agreed. I know 15 year olds that are mature enough to CCW and 60 year olds that can't be trusted with a can opener.

There is no magic number for age, as much as we would like to think there is.
And that is in regard to almost all age based restrictions. You can charge a 14 year old with murder because he is an adult, but an 18 year old coming back from a combat deployment can't drink a beer...and you thought gun laws were illogical/hypocritical/oxymoronic .