What do you think about allowing under 21s to get pistol and CCW?

[bluebird]

I'm very tired right now and I hope you will forgive me if some of the stuff I'm typing isn't very clear. But this happened this morning (yeah 12-4am).

In short, I went to karaoke yesterday with friends who just graduated from high school and some random dudes just came into our room and did a bunch of weird stuff (they looked creepy and just sat down next to my female friends and tried to talk to them). We were uncomfortable with the situation so we kindly asked them to leave but they came back later and we asked them to leave again. Apparently they were waiting for us to leave when I was going to the bathroom. Luckily they left since we stayed there for so long.

I'm very glad no one was hurt in the situation but I was definitely afraid someone would get hurt and that would be us because they were bigger than us and in such a tight environment I was afraid they might have knives.

It's not like if I have a CCW I will draw on them but I feel very insecure at that time but if situation arises I would wish I have something that I can defend myself and my friends with.

I happened to have a Victorinox with me but I don't think I will be able to deploy it on time and we'd be dead if they were actually bad guys. You can argue that in such a tight environment there's nothing I can use besides my fists but in some other situations (like them waiting for us) I feel that a CCW might give me another option if our lives are in danger.

I do plan to get pepper spray in the near future (cause I spent a fortune on my first AR and I am low on spending on other stuff). Well, at least it's something. But I mean, I dunno how a pepper spray will help in a tight environment. I do agree a gun wouldn't work either as we'd all be deaf and dead if they had knives.

I believe CCW shall be shall-issued and the government needs to have special permits for under 21s to get a handgun (I don't care even if I have to take a year long class at school before getting it). Thoughts?

[G60]

Jennings v BATFE is a lawsuit challenging the restriction.

[Stryprod]

It scares me as the adolescent brain is not fully developed (observation AND science) but it is the age we have collectively decided you are old enough to fight for this country, vote, and be considered an adult, so you should be able to own a pistol. Fear alone is no reason to deny an adult their due liberties.

I'd imagine, minus a few "spoiled?" ones, it would take a lot of responsibility to be 18 and afford a handgun.

[Pred@tor]

I dont care im 24

[mag360]

A friend of mine was killed at a house party in Sacramento on Halloween 2008, some thugs from a local gang decided they'd crash the party (friends of a friend who was invited) and wouldn't leave when asked. They were groping the girls, stole a camera, etc. In the end, they shot multiple people, Pat was shot in the head when he tried to tackle one of gang members, but slipped and fell. They shot him on the ground.

Your situation sounds similar except it's a smaller environment.

This happens across Sacramento all the time, and it usually goes like this:

1. group of college aged friends have party and invite friends who are like them.
2. a friend in that group, without realizing the consequences, invites a friend (not college student, not responsible, etc) who is "outside" the comfort zone(race, socio-economic status, pants on the ground type of BS) of the original group.
3. downfall...this friend brings his own group of friends, and calamity ensues as the original group is VERY upset with the unwelcome cast.
4. typically fist fights, broken bottles, vandalized cars and broken window is the worst I've seen (til Halloween 08).


I don't know how a CCW would help in these type of party situations, all you can do is your best to prevent this crap from happening. (or leave, my close friends did that several times when this would happen at other houses). If it's at someones house, you don't need a CCW to carry there if you have permission. And you don't need to be 21 to get a pistol. Shotguns can be owned under 18 even. Make sure invitee's realize that they are NOT welcome to invite anyone else. Institute a "this text is your invite" policy. Control the door and access in/out of the house. As much as it sucks, call the Sheriff/Police on your own party BEFORE anything escalates past asking the people to leave.

[jshoebot]

I'm fine with it. I don't see anything in the 2nd Amendment saying "..shall not be infringed, unless you're under 21."

[Pred@tor]

everyone is different too and mature at different rates

[$P-Ritch$]

I feel that once you are considered an adult you should be afforded all the adult responsibilities available. Since the age on legal adulthood is currently set at 18, that is when one should be able to apply for a permit and purchase a handgun. Hell, they can already vote and join the army.

There is always going to be some older folks who will complain about the younger generation and how much the thought of them carrying guns scares them. You'll just have to ignore their hasty generalizations that group everyone from the younger crowd into a bunch of tweakers and gang bangers. Plus, all those miscreants that they fear have no respect for the law and are more than likely carrying illegally anyways.

I've known some extremely responsible young adults still in their teens. Meanwhile on the reverse, I've seen some extremely irresponsible behavior from more "seasoned" individuals. For example, a range master at the local range (about 55 years old) once told me that if his dog ever got hit by a car he would probably get his gun and shoot the driver. I chuckled, but he did not and I know he has plenty of guns to choose from. Age does not equal responsible behavior.

On a side note, every time I've gone to gun training courses the most unsafe individuals (sweeping/ND's/etc) have all been in the 40+ crowd.

[L84CABO]

everyone is different too and mature at different rates

Thought you didn't care?

[bluebird]

Did I mention some RANDOM people just entered our room? And to address the "age" issue, I had suggested that the law requires under 21s to take extra courses. Heck, I think every CCWers should.

[MASTERLAB]

If you can vote, if you can die for your country, you should be allowed to have and carry the arm of your choice, in the manner you choose

[Riodog]

It scares me as the adolescent brain is not fully developed (observation AND science) but it is the age we have collectively decided you are old enough to fight for this country, vote, and be considered an adult, so you should be able to own a pistol. Fear alone is no reason to deny an adult their due liberties.

I'd imagine, minus a few "spoiled?" ones, it would take a lot of responsibility to be 18 and afford a handgun.

While I'd agree with the very first part of your statement, I find that I'm very uncomfortable with the idea of 99% of "? -> whomever ? carrying without benefit of any self control training". This comes with maturity and experience.
My nephew is 18 and I put a gun in his hand when he was 7. He's had all the training afforded and I still wouldn't want him carrying a weapon on a daily venue. The judgement is just not there.
Rio

[Stryprod]

Did I mention some RANDOM people just entered our room? And to address the "age" issue, I had suggested that the law requires under 21s to take extra courses. Heck, I think every CCWers should.

Hate to break it to you but life is weird and random S**t, whoops, stuff happens and way more often than not you will be just fine .

Negative on under 21 needing "additional courses" as you are starting to walk down the line of restricting a right, not a privileged like driving. What additional course should be required? How many and for how long? What is the acceptable grade or level to pass? Do you have to own a gun to partake or is renting ok? Should women take extra course because they seem to be more scared and less likely to shoot a gun? Why stop at 21?

See the crud stream you open up?

As I myself have said, as well as others.... if you can vote, die, and be put to death for crimes, you have just as much right to protect yourself.... no matter how smart you think you are

[Stryprod]

While I'd agree with the very first part of your statement, I find that I'm very uncomfortable with the idea of 99% of "? -> whomever ? carrying without benefit of any self control training". This comes with maturity and experience.
My nephew is 18 and I put a gun in his hand when he was 7. He's had all the training afforded and I still wouldn't want him carrying a weapon on a daily venue. The judgement is just not there.
Rio

Your opinion and the same reason used to deny 18yo the right to vote (amongst others).

Why stop at 21 for pistols? I mean after all you can drink and drinking messes with your judgement right? Let's give a few years to get all that drinking out of the way so you can think clearly... 25 sounds good. Wait, a real responsible person is only someone who has a family so 30 sounds good... where does it stop??????

I hate to break it to you but we have to select an ARBITRARY age at some point and for better or for worse as a society we have chosen 18. Otherwise being selective in your judgement opens the field to the crap we have been dealing with. Why a 10 day waiting period??? Seemed right, etc, etc, etc.

[jshoebot]

Negative on under 21 needing "additional courses" as you are starting to walk down the line of restricting a right, not a privileged like driving.

This is unrelated to the original post, but I hate it when people say "driving is a privilege" when it's most definitely not. Here's a good clarification of the differences: http://www.vinsuprynowicz.com/?p=776