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Williams v. Maryland ~ Petition for Writ of Cert

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  • Patrick-2
    Senior Member
    • Dec 2010
    • 600

    Crossing your eyes might help read Maryland's response to the cert request. They kinda sorta boned themselves a few times, already. God Bless our nepotistically-appointed Attorney General. He'll save gun rights, yet.

    Give our boy Gansler credit for not playing with words: he says citizens with concealed handguns are downright scary and then argues that public safety demands law-abiding people be denied fundamental rights, because guns will make them turn violent. Or something.

    Gansler argued that guns in the hands of Baltimore inner-city residents (he called them out specifically) would result in super-violent streets because access to the gun would cause harm. Somehow. This argument requires one of two things to be true (Gansler didn't get into the details of how this transformation occurs): Maryland residents - especially those from Baltimore's inner city (wink, wink...'those people') - are more bestial than the residents of other states and large cities in the USA; or - conversely - inanimate objects can truly modify people's souls from good to evil. Wes Craven will be happy to know he called that one.

    Note this is not the first time Maryland has taken this approach: our state had laws on the books against inter-racial marriage all the way into the 60s. Don't let the fact it was a border state - or our governor's recent declaration that we are a Progressive paradise - make you think Maryland has been the fulcrum of civil rights progress. When it comes to civil rights, Maryland has historically been more Alabama than California.

    Even gay rights...fence sitters. They could pass gay marriage today, but prefer to sit it out with a "we'll recognize marriages performed elsewhere. Kinda."

    Seriously though, I do think Scalia will take the opportunity to clarify a few things and certainly NOT in a round-a-bout way. Both barrels for sure.
    Maybe, but keep in mind we may not like the outcome. There are a lot of 'law and order' issues coming up and several of "our justices" have been philosophically sympathetic to the state's role in such matters. As long as the right stays above the fray of public safety concern (per Heller and McDonald) we should be OK. But the related issues (permits, training, etc.) might find a receptive ear. That is where games will be played and I suspect everyone knows it.

    For all the fun I have at Gansler's expense, the man is not an idiot. He is positioning the public safety rubric knowing he cannot win the core (he has all but acknowledged that), but because he wants to position his swing for secondary effect - namely, 'reasonable regulations'. I actually suspect Gansler is ahead of the other states in this regard. We might be fighting in Maryland for a long time. Unlike California, we have a tight delegation in the state house and the real management is done by a small group led by one man: Senate President Mike Miller. How powerful is the man? They named the Senate Building after him, and he ain't dead, retired, retiring or dying. He is still 'just an elected official', and they named the Senate building after him because of his power. That's about as obvious as you get.

    I went to one of Mike Miller's parties and the governor spent the whole night kissing his keister. Not a quick show-and-tell of the governor, but a whole night of butt-kissing in front of the people. The governor actually told people he was there all night because of Mike. It was shocking to me, and I am pretty cynical.

    That tight delegation means they can better position for changes. You won't get a renegade faction passing something overwhelmingly anti-gun that we can openly attack with ease. It will be subtle.

    Maryland may have their pants around their ankles today, but that is living with legacy from many years ago. The boss today is smart and capable. Everything hinges on Mike. FWIW, he comes from a somewhat conservative district and will never say anything anti-gun out loud. There are more private single-owner gun ranges - like mine - in his district than public ones in the whole rest of the state. Weekends here are like the Fourth of July, year round.

    You forgot the smiley on the end of that.
    Maybe...

    ------
    Some Guy In Maryland

    Comment

    • Kharn
      Senior Member
      • Aug 2009
      • 1219

      Aren't the amicus briefs due this week? My understanding is even if the respondent is granted extra time, amicii must submit their briefs on the original timeline. But, I'm not quite sure how waiving the right to respond changes the timeline.

      Comment

      • press1280
        Veteran Member
        • Mar 2009
        • 3023

        Originally posted by Kharn
        Aren't the amicus briefs due this week? My understanding is even if the respondent is granted extra time, amicii must submit their briefs on the original timeline. But, I'm not quite sure how waiving the right to respond changes the timeline.
        MD's response is due mid-July, I don't know if amicus briefs are due then as well, or if they even come into play when cert has yet to be granted.

        Comment

        • navyinrwanda
          Senior Member
          • Jan 2007
          • 599

          Originally posted by Patrick-2
          I would wait to see how the court frames the question they answer...
          Assuming the Court chooses to hear WilliamsPeruta, they've dodged the question by incorrectly focusing on irrelevant issues like scrutiny). So, like it or not, if the Supreme Court really meant for all of its language in HellerWilliams will have anything to say about the method of carry (e.g., open or concealed). It's also very unlikely to say anything about licensing schemes beyond language similar to Heller:
          Because Heller conceded at oral argument that the D. C. licensing law is permissible if it is not enforced arbitrarily and capriciously, the Court assumes that a license will satisfy his prayer for relief and does not address the licensing requirement. Assuming he is not disqualified from exercising Second Amendment rights, the District must permit Heller to register his handgun and must issue him a license to carry it [in the home].
          Salute v. PitchessPeruta amici briefobjectiveHellerJosh Blackman, who has written extensively on the Constitutionality of Social Cost, and on the double standards of Justices Roberts, Alito and Kennedy.)

          Comment

          • hoffmang
            I need a LIFE!!
            • Apr 2006
            • 18448

            Don't forget that Justice Kennedy voted with the majority when he was just a 9th Circuit Court of Appeals Justice in Guillory.

            -Gene
            Gene Hoffman
            Chairman, California Gun Rights Foundation

            DONATE NOW
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            "The problem with being a gun rights supporter is that the left hates guns and the right hates rights." -Anon

            Comment

            • dantodd
              Calguns Addict
              • Aug 2009
              • 9360

              It would be somewhat poetic if based upon reading the MD court's opinion, which says:

              Although Williams attempts to find succor in this dicta, it is clear that prohibition of firearms in the home was the gravamen of the certiorari questions in both Heller and
              McDonald and their answers. If the Supreme Court, in this dicta, meant its holding to extend beyond home possession, it will need to say so more plainly.
              SCOTUS phrased at least part of the question as "Does the Holding in Heller extend beyond home possession?"
              Coyote Point Armory
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              Comment

              • Maestro Pistolero
                Veteran Member
                • Apr 2009
                • 3897

                Although Williams attempts to find succor in this dicta, it is clear that prohibition of firearms in the home was the gravamen of the certiorari questions in both Heller and McDonald and their answers. If the Supreme Court, in this dicta, meant its holding to extend beyond home possession, it will need to say so more plainly.
                Damn! I had to look up two words from a single sentence. That doesn't happen everyday!

                SCOTUS phrased at least part of the question as "Does the Holding in Heller extend beyond home possession?"
                Refresh my memory, where did they phrase it this way?
                Last edited by Maestro Pistolero; 06-14-2011, 12:19 PM.
                www.christopherjhoffman.com

                The Second Amendment is the one right that is so fundamental that the inability to exercise it, should the need arise, would render all other rights null and void. Dead people have no rights.
                Magna est veritas et praevalebit

                Comment

                • ke6guj
                  Moderator
                  CGN Contributor - Lifetime
                  • Nov 2003
                  • 23725

                  Originally posted by Maestro Pistolero
                  Refresh my memory, where did they phrase it this way?
                  they didn't.

                  He said wouldn't it be nice IF SCOTUS asked it that way if/when they take the case, not that they had phrased it that way already.
                  Jack



                  Do you want an AOW or C&R SBS/SBR in CA?

                  No posts of mine are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer.

                  Comment

                  • Maestro Pistolero
                    Veteran Member
                    • Apr 2009
                    • 3897

                    Ah, thanks. Based on the dare by the lower court, I would expect that question to be included in any re-phrasing.
                    www.christopherjhoffman.com

                    The Second Amendment is the one right that is so fundamental that the inability to exercise it, should the need arise, would render all other rights null and void. Dead people have no rights.
                    Magna est veritas et praevalebit

                    Comment

                    • Paladin
                      I need a LIFE!!
                      • Dec 2005
                      • 12387

                      I have a note to myself that the deadline for MD's reply to SCOTUS for cert is in less than (July 16th). Correct?

                      If correct, what & when is the next step after that?
                      240+ examples of CCWs Saving Lives.

                      Comment

                      • hoffmang
                        I need a LIFE!!
                        • Apr 2006
                        • 18448

                        Originally posted by Paladin
                        I have a note to myself that the deadline for MD's reply to SCOTUS for cert is in less than (July 16th). Correct?

                        If correct, what & when is the next step after that?
                        It sits until the Supreme Court long conference in September. Here is a post about last year's long conference.

                        -Gene
                        Gene Hoffman
                        Chairman, California Gun Rights Foundation

                        DONATE NOW
                        to support the rights of California gun owners. Follow @cgfgunrights on Twitter.
                        Opinions posted in this account are my own and not the approved position of any organization.
                        I read PMs. But, if you need a response, include an email address or email me directly!


                        "The problem with being a gun rights supporter is that the left hates guns and the right hates rights." -Anon

                        Comment

                        • navyinrwanda
                          Senior Member
                          • Jan 2007
                          • 599

                          Maryland's Response to Cert Petition

                          Reposted from MDShooters.com.
                          Last edited by navyinrwanda; 05-24-2012, 8:31 PM.

                          Comment

                          • wildhawker
                            I need a LIFE!!
                            • Nov 2008
                            • 14150

                            Originally posted by navyinrwanda
                            Reposted from MDShooters.com.
                            A response as could be expected. They pitched Kennedy a softball to lobby denial of cert.
                            Brandon Combs

                            I do not read private messages, and my inbox is usually full. If you need to reach me, please email me instead.

                            My comments are not the official position or a statement of any organization unless stated otherwise. My comments are not legal advice; if you want or need legal advice, hire a lawyer.

                            Comment

                            • yellowfin
                              Calguns Addict
                              • Nov 2007
                              • 8371

                              Pretty much a bold faced lie from them on all points. They're claiming there's no evidence that Williams applying for a permit would be futile, even though they've said so explicitly in federal court several times in opinions they themselves recite (Scherr v. Handgun Permit Review Board and Snowden v. Handgun Permit Review Board) regularly as doctrine for denying them and in the very case questioning their permit issuance right now. They claim their permit system is facially fair.

                              I really hope this is made plain enough to where it cannot be ignored.
                              "You can't stop insane people from doing insane things with insane laws. That's insane!" -- Penn Jillette
                              Originally posted by indiandave
                              In Pennsylvania Your permit to carry concealed is called a License to carry fire arms. Other states call it a CCW. In New Jersey it's called a crime.
                              Discretionary Issue is the new Separate but Equal.

                              Comment

                              • krucam
                                Member
                                • Mar 2010
                                • 334

                                All of the arguments the MD AG threw in the Williams Opposition to Cert are readily viewable in the District Woollard v. Sheridan.

                                There is nothing new here. Gura handled them well in the Woollard (District) level. Halbrook with Williams (SCOTUS) only needs to review these to help with his response.

                                Same, tired arguments from MD. They're not going to work anymore.
                                Mark C.
                                DFW, TX

                                Comment

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