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US attempts to re-define switchblades - would make most pocket knives illegal

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  • #16
    GaryV
    Senior Member
    • Apr 2009
    • 886

    I didn't read all 63 pages, but looking through some of the relevant parts, it looks like the story might be a little alarmist, but there is some truth to it as well. The problem is, if course, that the government is trying to ban certain types of weapons that it associates with certain socioeconomic classes, or that some people find scary, just like "saturday night specials" or "assault weapons". The difference is that they are forcing a functional definition (as if there really was one) that includes not only switchblades, but butterfly knives and any other type of knife that has become demonized in the media.

    In trying to make this definition fit assisted opening knives, they have pushed the limits of reason. This is the basic definition as written in the law:

    or any knife with a blade which opens automatically by operation of inertia, gravity, or both; [emphasis added]
    So, what they've basically done to make this work is that they, through a total BS legal precedent, have argued that they may read the emphasized "or" as "and". Then they argue that the fact that thumb studs are not on the handle is irrelevant, because the intent of the law is to ban "instant open" knives, and moving the "device" to the blade is irrelevant. So, what they now claim is that with the "and" in there, the combination of manual manipulation of the blade that then allows inertia to take over and complete the opening of the blade makes it a switchblade.

    The problem is inertia isn't spring action, it's flicking the knife open (hence the ban on "flick knives" and butterfly knives). So, by their definition, any folding knife that can be flicked open after partially opening the blade manually (at least those that can be partially opened with one hand) is a switchblade. That, of course, would include a lot of simple pocket knives that don't even have assisted opening. They also claim that any knife that can be easily modified to open this way through modification with common tools (by loosening any friction or other retention mechanisms) would also qualify.

    So it's the same kind of BS we see with gun laws. Oh, and they're not changing the law, they're changing their interpretation and application of the law. The problem, according to the notice, is that many state and local governments simply use the CBP definition of "switchblade" rather than writing their own, and so these knives could potentially be banned anywhere where actual switchblades are illegal.
    Last edited by GaryV; 06-08-2009, 12:28 AM.

    Comment

    • #17
      gazzavc
      Senior Member
      • Mar 2007
      • 988

      Originally posted by bohoki
      like they say if it can be used as a weapon it is a weapon

      assisted openers banned haa

      My wife's cooking can be used as a weapon.

      The scones she made last week would crack a skull at 20 paces.

      I'd like to see the BATFE come round and have a word about that, especially after she gets the rolling pin out.....


      I mean, they could really hurt someone.......

      Comment

      • #18
        phamkl
        Senior Member
        • Nov 2008
        • 551

        I'm not too fond of my representative voting to make me a criminal overnight. Alas.

        Comment

        • #19
          CABilly
          Senior Member
          • Jan 2008
          • 1613

          Originally posted by GaryV
          I didn't read all 63 pages, but looking through some of the relevant parts, it looks like the story might be a little alarmist, but there is some truth to it as well. The problem is, if course, that the government is trying to ban certain types of weapons that it associates with certain socioeconomic classes, or that some people find scary, just like "saturday night specials" or "assault weapons". The difference is that they are forcing a functional definition (as if there really was one) that includes not only switchblades, but butterfly knives and any other type of knife that has become demonized in the media.

          In trying to make this definition fit assisted opening knives, they have pushed the limits of reason. This is the basic definition as written in the law:



          So, what they've basically done to make this work is that they, through a total BS legal precedent, have argued that they may read the emphasized "or" as "and". Then they argue that the fact that thumb studs are not on the handle is irrelevant, because the intent of the law is to ban "instant open" knives, and moving the "device" to the blade is irrelevant. So, what they now claim is that with the "and" in there, the combination of manual manipulation of the blade that then allows inertia to take over and complete the opening of the blade makes it a switchblade.

          The problem is inertia isn't spring action, it's flicking the knife open (hence the ban on "flick knives" and butterfly knives). So, by their definition, any folding knife that can be flicked open after partially opening the blade manually (at least those that can be partially opened with one hand) is a switchblade. That, of course, would include a lot of simple pocket knives that don't even have assisted opening. They also claim that any knife that can be easily modified to open this way through modification with common tools (by loosening any friction or other retention mechanisms) would also qualify.

          So it's the same kind of BS we see with gun laws. Oh, and they're not changing the law, they're changing their interpretation and application of the law. The problem, according to the notice, is that many state and local governments simply use the CBP definition of "switchblade" rather than writing their own, and so these knives could potentially be banned anywhere where actual switchblades are illegal.
          Thanks!

          Would currently owned knives be grandfathered? Also, why does Customs and Border Protection care so much about knives? How many evil evil drugs do they let in? How many people within our borders are here illegally?

          Besides, I thought all of the killer weapons were already here and leaking OUT of the country.
          Don't feed the cannibals.

          Comment

          • #20
            GaryV
            Senior Member
            • Apr 2009
            • 886

            Originally posted by CABilly
            Thanks!

            Would currently owned knives be grandfathered? Also, why does Customs and Border Protection care so much about knives? How many evil evil drugs do they let in? How many people within our borders are here illegally?

            Besides, I thought all of the killer weapons were already here and leaking OUT of the country.
            CBP's change would technically only apply to importers, although if other federal agencies adopted this interpretation, then domestically produced knives could be affected as well. As far as grandfathering goes, however, if the people who posted the warning are correct, and state and local governments often depend on CBP's interpretation in implementing their own laws, it would depend on your state or local government (my guess would be no in most cases). There is no federal ban on manufacturing, buying, selling, or possessing switchblades, only importation and interstate commerce. In states where switchblades are legal, it wouldn't change anything, except availability.

            Comment

            • #21
              DrediKnight
              Member
              • Oct 2008
              • 272

              No problem we can just whip up some bullet buttons for the switchblade crowd...

              Comment

              • #22
                RolinThundr
                Senior Member
                • May 2009
                • 1228

                Originally posted by ukdkbr
                Well ... you never know, I wanted to avoid the "what does this have to do with firearms" comments. I agree with you thats why I posted it here.
                Yeah...name a gun owner that doesn't own a knife or four! It belongs hear. Thanks for the heads up.
                "The Gun is Civilization", Written By Marko Kloos

                "The more corrupt the state, the more laws." -Tacitus, Publius Cornelius

                "Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum."

                Comment

                • #23
                  HondaMasterTech
                  Veteran Member
                  • Apr 2009
                  • 4338

                  This is ridiculous. Im waiting for the day when humans are classified as dangerous weapons and we all have to wrap ourselves in bubble wrap like the little brother in a christmas story before we leave our houses.
                  Originally posted by Paladin
                  (Please skip the lame "two weeks" replies.)
                  Originally posted by Ford8N
                  If I could have gotten 51 votes in the Senate of the United States for an outright ban, picking up every one of them, Mr. and Mrs. America, turn 'em all in, I would have done it. Senator Dianne Feinstein, CBS-TV's 60 Minutes, February 5, 1995

                  Comment

                  • #24
                    DedEye
                    Calguns Addict
                    • Nov 2006
                    • 8655

                    I thought this would be about the court in Texas that ruled that a Kershaw assisted opener was a switchblade; anyone know what came of that case?
                    These posts are Fiction. They do not contain legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer. Any resemblance to real persons are pure coincidence. These posts may pose an inhalation hazard, reading can be harmful or fatal. No statements made on this forum are meant to represent any corporate or business entity, others, or myself. Especially not myself.

                    Stop duping answers, help expand the FAQ.

                    Why yes, that is me in my avatar and yes, I AM wearing a life jacket.

                    WTS Keltec P11

                    Comment

                    • #25
                      cousinkix1953
                      Banned
                      • Jan 2009
                      • 1385

                      Originally posted by M. Sage
                      How are knives not a 2A issue? Some knives are weapons.

                      I know I've carried a knife as a tool and weapon for a long time.
                      Tom Gresham had the owner of the Knife Rights website on his Gun Talk show this weekend. Apparently anything, that can be opened (with one hand) will be reclassified as a switchblade whether it has a spring or not. You have just two weeks to send in a snail mail letter opposing this US Customs bearacracy's power grab. They don't accept e-mails or any other modern forms of communications...

                      Comment

                      • #26
                        cdtx2001
                        CGN Contributor
                        • Apr 2009
                        • 6630

                        Originally posted by CABilly

                        why does Customs and Border Protection care so much about knives? How many evil evil drugs do they let in? How many people within our borders are here illegally?

                        Besides, I thought all of the killer weapons were already here and leaking OUT of the country.

                        Because drugs and guns take too much work to find. Besides, most everyone carries a knife of some kind. So, to make everyone at CBP feel happy, make everyone a criminal and they are easy to catch.

                        ANYTHING can be used as a weapon, books, chairs, pencils, cars, fists, feet, rope, chain, flashlights... Like someone else said, one day we will have to leave the house in bubble wrap... Add to that naked and handcuffed too.


                        I'm ready to revolt!! I've been called revolting many times!!!
                        Last edited by cdtx2001; 06-08-2009, 9:26 AM.
                        Custom made Tail Gunner Trailer Hitch for sale.
                        http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...php?p=17820185

                        "Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side kid" -Han Solo

                        "A dull knife is as useless as the man who would dare carry it"

                        Comment

                        • #27
                          Untamed1972
                          I need a LIFE!!
                          • Mar 2009
                          • 17579

                          This is just another of the "incrimental" move to disarm and criminalize the public at large.

                          Any "sheepdog" that would do things that leave his flock defenseless under the guise of "protecting them, or for their own good" is in reality a "wolf in sheepdogs clothing".
                          "Freedom begins with an act of defiance"

                          Quote for the day:
                          "..the mind is the weapon and the hand only its extention. Discipline your mind!" Master Hao, Chenrezi monastery, Valley of the Sun

                          Comment

                          • #28
                            1JimMarch
                            Senior Member
                            • Jul 2008
                            • 1803

                            This may be a mistake we WANT them to make so we can fight it in court under Heller.

                            They're about to try and ban THE most common weapon in the US, which most people don't even think of as all that much of a weapon.

                            Remember the "in common use" phrasing in Heller? This new "rule" would collide head-on with that...

                            Comment

                            • #29
                              Untamed1972
                              I need a LIFE!!
                              • Mar 2009
                              • 17579

                              Originally posted by 1JimMarch
                              This may be a mistake we WANT them to make so we can fight it in court under Heller.

                              They're about to try and ban THE most common weapon in the US, which most people don't even think of as all that much of a weapon.

                              Remember the "in common use" phrasing in Heller? This new "rule" would collide head-on with that...

                              If it does it needs to be fought with an injuction in place to keep the new CBP interpreation from being put into effect while it is court so that thousands of innocent, law-abiding folks don't find themselves on the wrong side of the law and the associated expense and hassle ans stress of dealing with a bogus criminal charge.
                              "Freedom begins with an act of defiance"

                              Quote for the day:
                              "..the mind is the weapon and the hand only its extention. Discipline your mind!" Master Hao, Chenrezi monastery, Valley of the Sun

                              Comment

                              • #30
                                7x57
                                Calguns Addict
                                • Nov 2008
                                • 5182

                                Originally posted by 1JimMarch
                                This may be a mistake we WANT them to make so we can fight it in court under Heller.

                                They're about to try and ban THE most common weapon in the US, which most people don't even think of as all that much of a weapon.

                                Remember the "in common use" phrasing in Heller? This new "rule" would collide head-on with that...
                                I'd like to think you're correct, but there seems to be an unspoken belief even on the part of anti-gun judges that if you *were* going to defend yourself in spite of the state's care, a handgun is the most legitimate way to do it. We have to secure the things they can imagine before we try to explain the rest to them.

                                But I'd sure like to lead the courts to admitting that "arms" is not a synonym for "firearm," much less "a firearm that isn't too scary."

                                7x57
                                sigpic

                                What do you need guns for if you are going to send your children, seven hours a day, 180 days a year to government schools? What do you need the guns for at that point?-- R. C. Sproul, Jr. (unconfirmed)

                                Originally posted by bulgron
                                I know every chance I get I'm going to accuse 7x57 of being a shill for LCAV. Because I can.

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