MERGED THREADS "Bullet Button Assault Weapon" Regs

[Shell]

Ok, so are indeed on the same page. For a moment I thought you were claiming something else... Oh well.

Yes, it needs to go. In the meantime, we register the ones we intend to register and make featureless the ones we don't intend to register. With registration in hand we can wait for the outcome of litigation, or we can decide whether to take BB off or not based on our personal beliefs and risk profiles.

^ This.

But we still have to lobby to find an attorney to take this. Getting more people to register, helps increase the numbers for standing. Another reason why we should register and band together... even if featureless rifles don't get denied the ability to register down the road.

[naught]

There are currently two different versions of 30680(a) at leginfo.legislature.ca.gov, one right above the other. The one on the top has the wording, "would have been eligible to register," while the one on the bottom says, "was eligible to register." This seems to reflect the differences between SB880 and AB1135. Not sure how these discrepancies get reconciled (during trial, do I get to pick the version I want ).

I clicked on the blue links with the code number and they were identical.

Here's what I see at leginfo.legislature.ca.gov. The code number links show the same differences for me.

30680. Section 30605 does not apply to the possession of an assault weapon by a person who has possessed the assault weapon prior to January 1, 2017, if all of the following are applicable:

(a) Prior to January 1, 2017, the person would have been eligible to register that assault weapon pursuant to subdivision (b) of Section 30900.

(b) The person lawfully possessed that assault weapon prior to January 1, 2017.

(c) The person registers the assault weapon by January 1, 2018, in accordance with subdivision (b) of Section 30900.

(Added by Stats. 2016, Ch. 40, Sec. 2. Effective January 1, 2017. See similar section added by Stats. 2016, Ch. 48.)

30680. Section 30605 does not apply to the possession of an assault weapon by a person who has possessed the assault weapon prior to January 1, 2017, if all of the following are applicable:

(a) Prior to January 1, 2017, the person was eligible to register that assault weapon pursuant to subdivision (b) of Section 30900.

(b) The person lawfully possessed that assault weapon prior to January 1, 2017.

(c) The person registers the assault weapon by January 1, 2018, in accordance with subdivision (b) of Section 30900.

(Added by Stats. 2016, Ch. 48, Sec. 2. Effective January 1, 2017.)

[lrdchivalry]

Please for the love of all that holy in this world, explain to me how you still have a Bullet Button Assault Weapon which this regulation created, after you remove the Bullet Button?

You dont. You now have an Assault Weapon.

Did you register is AW in 2000? No, you didnt.

I buy a Mini-14. I install a Grip Pod on it. Please show me the law that says a Grip Pod is not a Bi-pod.

How can I be charged with AW possession for a featureless Firearm? Bi-pods are not illegal?

I buy an AR15 and install a FRS-15, many many many people here say I have an illegal AW? How is that? I see nothing in the law that says that? Why do they say that? What are they referring to?

(1)*A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that does not have a fixed magazine but has any one of the following:
Then any one of the following:
A)*A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon.
(B)*A thumbhole stock.
(C)*A folding or telescoping stock.
(D)*A grenade launcher or flare launcher.
(E)*A flash suppressor.
(F)*A forward pistol grip.
(2)*A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.
(3)*A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has an overall length of less than 30 inches.

One cannot be prosecuted for manufacturing an AW or have their registrations invalidated for switching out their BB post registration. Even 5477 does not even support that.

[IVC]

In fact if you waited until 2017 to install the standard mag release you did not possess that assault weapon at all prior to Jan 1 2017.

Good - I've been trying to get this from you for a while. Your claim is, therefore, that if you remove BB you are creating a different rifle/AW.

To claim it's a "different assault weapon" we need to claim either that it's a different firearm (neither ATF nor CA laws support this) or that it's somehow a "different AW."

Going back to PC 30515 to determine what an AW is, how would you claim that swapping one magazine release for another creates a "different AW?" Note that "that assault weapon" references the new code, so the new definition of the AW applies and BB is irrelevant.

[Discogodfather]

I consider it a small silver lining for us that the DOJ, in all their sophisticated rat trap making, forgot to put a similar sentence to the magazine release issues into the regs with regards to OAL.

So, we can in fact go RAW and make our weapons a little more assaulty and evil. We need to be at 30" at the time of registration but after that we can go down to 26".

I measured many different types of rifles last night and basically any AK, VZ-58, SIG 55x, FAL, HK, Cetme, and possible many others can easily make 26" in a folded state / collapsed. Most can make 26" even without a muzzle attachment.

It's a war and this is a minor victory!

[FABIO GETS GOOSED!!!]

Good - I've been trying to get this from you for a while. Your claim is, therefore, that if you remove BB you are creating a different rifle/AW.

I've explained this before. The AW with standard mag release is not the AW with BB that you lawfully possessed prior to January 1, 2017, and it is not the AW with BB that you registered.

[jcwatchdog]

AW registration can be revoked. I know of one person who had that happen to them. He had augs and a few other things from way back during the 80s.

Under what circumstances was it revoked? There was no way they were revoked because they changed one or two features on the gun.

Also, I doubt very strongly that the registration was revoked, the AWs were probably confiscated for something he did, which is different.


If you make a claim like that, you should be more specific. Or it's just another one of those "I knew a guy once...." stories. Did he do something specifically against PC? What exactly was it?

[penguinman]

^ This.

But we still have to lobby to find an attorney to take this. Getting more people to register, helps increase the numbers for standing. Another reason why we should register and band together... even if featureless rifles don't get denied the ability to register down the road.

I can promise I will not be registering, even though my rifle is post 2014. It was featureless before the end of 2016 and it will remain that way until I find a new legal maglock I like. It's a principle thing with me at this point.

[IVC]

I've explained this before. The AW with standard mag release is not the AW with BB that you lawfully possessed prior to January 1, 2017, and it is not the AW with BB that you registered.

Once 30515 is updated, there is absolutely no legal distinction between the two. Since the new 30680 necessarily references new 30515, where do you draw the distinction from?

[naught]

You are correct - my mistake. (Too many sub-threads going on.) I was thinking about 30680(c) which provides exemption until 2018 to allow for registration. That's the one that is irrelevant after registration.

With that said, 30680(a) is not particularly relevant for this discussion since it only references 30900(b). There is nothing controversial about either of these sections. The problem is 30680(b).

But it's 30680(a) that directly addresses the removal of the BB after registration!

Here's the route to a felony (or $500 fine if you're lucky):

1) Register your assault weapon.
2) Remove bullet button.
3) Note that it is now not eligible for registration in this configuration according to 30900(b)(1).
4) Which means you no longer satisfy 30680(a).
5) Which means you no longer satisfy 30680.
6) Which means you no longer have an exemption from 30605.
7) Which means you are now in possession of an illegal assault weapon.

[razorduc]

I've explained this before. The AW with standard mag release is not the AW with BB that you lawfully possessed prior to January 1, 2017, and it is not the AW with BB that you registered.

But then changing out your flash hider (or adding one), stock, grip, even color could be said to be not the same AW that you registered. These are less sensitive "features", and color isn't even a feature, but it is part of the registration requirement. Well, hopefully that's why there are actual legal experts looking into it (starting Tuesday).

[Shell]

But it's 30680(a) that directly addresses the removal of the BB after registration!

Here's the route to a felony (or $500 fine if you're lucky):

1) Register your assault weapon.
2) Remove bullet button.
3) Note that it is now not eligible for registration in this configuration according to 30900(b)(1).
4) Which means you no longer satisfy 30680(a).
5) Which means you no longer satisfy 30680.
6) Which means you no longer have an exemption from 30605.
7) Which means you are now in possession of an illegal assault weapon.

Actually per #3 it would no longer be eligible per DOJ Rule 5477. That's why the rule should be challenged in federal court. Rule 5477 creates a new AW class, not 30900(b). DOJ did so without authority from the legislature.

Legislative intent is clear from the bill analysis - BBs are a loophole and functionally meaningless.

The flow is correct, in the eyes of the DOJ, you are creating an illegal AW if you remove the BB. But they are doing so in an arbitrary and capricious manner, without authorization from state law - thus infringing on my federal 2A rights.

Pile that on with SB 880 being an overreach of state power to regulate firearms, and let SCOTUS decide.

[jcwatchdog]

But it's 30680(a) that directly addresses the removal of the BB after registration!

Here's the route to a felony (or $500 fine if you're lucky):

1) Register your assault weapon.
2) Remove bullet button.
3) Note that it is now not eligible for registration in this configuration according to 30900(b)(1).
4) Which means you no longer satisfy 30680(a).
5) Which means you no longer satisfy 30680.
6) Which means you no longer have an exemption from 30605.
7) Which means you are now in possession of an illegal assault weapon.

That's a big stretch, considering all of those reference on ELIGIBILTY to register. After the rifle is registered, none of those apply anymore.

[Sousuke]

are you actually asking if any person or business has been charged with a crime by the Department of Justice for non-compliance with regulations relating the registration of some kind?

Its like asking if an LEO has ever shot a criminal. While not their primary function, they have guns for a reason.

No...I was asking if an Assault Weapon has ever had its registration invalidated and what were the details of it.

[Discogodfather]

But then changing out your flash hider (or adding one), stock, grip, even color could be said to be not the same AW that you registered. These are less sensitive "features", and color isn't even a feature, but it is part of the registration requirement. Well, hopefully that's why there are actual legal experts looking into it (starting Tuesday).

That makes no sense, the reason you can't change the BB is that they explicitly state you can't after you register. There is no language in the law or the regs that talks about any other configuration, so you can change anything you want.

They want the pics to ascertain two things:

1) Does it have a BB on it
2) Is it in legal config from 2001-2016 rules (30" OAL)

After that they only say BB is to stay. They have nothing on OAL (which can go to 26" but not lower or it will be an SBR). You need to be able to measure to 26" without a perm attached muzzle. I just realized you might be able to put on a grenade launcher again.

That's it, change color, anything about the rifle, all they care about is the BB.