MERGED THREADS "Bullet Button Assault Weapon" Regs

[Discogodfather]

How can you tell an AR has a BB from a photo? It's really hard.

[IVC]

We can not switch over to standard magazine release, we are 'stuck' with the BB (pun intended).

That's just one interpretation. The courts haven't chimed in. The language of the statute doesn't support that. FGG had to revert to "legislative intent" instead of finding the specific code that would be violated.

I understand that you see it differently and I understand that courts do their own thing so there is no guarantee for anything. But to claim that this is all clear cut is insane.

Just look at the level of disagreement even between judges in, e.g., Peruta decision between the panel and the en banc. It's not that half of them are stupid, it's that there are different interpretations and they are often contradictory.

Also notice that I am not going around saying "rejoice, we can remove BBs." Instead I am presenting one side of the debate and looking for the ways it would be addressed in court.

[IVC]

With all due respect sir, the DOJ didn't give us a heads up. With out 5477 the BBs come off, and everyone understands that.

That's actually a very good point.

Ifilef, how would you see the whole situation if the DOJ came out with the rule that says "once registered, the BB can be removed?" Would you find that inconsistent with the penal code?

[ifilef]

Can one change the original lawful configuration into another lawful configuration?

Can one change the original lawful configuration into another lawful configuration that in the past might have not been lawful?

Does the registration expire or in any way change when converting from one lawful configuration to another lawful configuration?

These are simple question that have nothing to do with the current debate, only establishing general facts about what a firearm is and how the gun laws work.

I can't answer your hypothetical questions because you have not given me any facts upon which to answer them.

[ifilef]

If that was the case the legislature would have explicitly created a new category of assault weapon, but yet they didn't.

That's another red herring.

[ifilef]

How can you tell an AR has a BB from a photo? It's really hard.

Suggest that you shoot macro because you don't want to give them a reason to delay or deny your application.

Besides, applicants will likely have to swear under penalty of perjury as to their representations.

I guess the DOJ interpreted 30900(b)(3) more broadly than I did in giving a description of the firearm to require photographs. That surprised me, thought they would be pleased to just register as many as possible.

[FABIO GETS GOOSED!!!]

Since you are here, I am curious about the mechanism of prosecution for violating 5477 of the regs.

30675(c) says "Sections 30605 and 30610 shall not apply to the registered owner of an assault weapon or a .50 BMG rifle possessing that firearm in accordance with Section 30945."

That seems to give a fairly across the board exception to 30605 for the registered owner of any assault weapon as long as they were possessing that firearm in accordance with Section 30945. The logical mechanism for prosecuting a violation of 5477 seems to be to claim your registration is invalid because you violated the terms and therefore you are not a registered owner under 30675(c) and therefore eligible to be prosecuted for violation of 30605.

Does that sound right? If so, do you know anything about processes or precedent for invalidating registrations after the fact?

AWs with standard mag releases are not registrable under SB 880. If you have an AW with standard mag release, it would be unregistered, and you would therefore not be the "registered owner" of that AW for purposes of PC 30675(c). You would instead be in direct violation of PC 30605. You don't need 11 CCR 5477 to arrive at that conclusion, but hopefully that regulation will help people from doing something stupid. The new regs, specifically 11 CCR 5472(b), emphasize this aspect of SB 880, i.e., that SB 23 AWs are not registrable. Registration of a pre-2017 compliant AW with bullet button is not registration of a pre-2017 non-compliant AW with standard mag release.

[FABIO GETS GOOSED!!!]

I thought DOJ was executive branch.

I did say legislature, not DoJ lol.

[FABIO GETS GOOSED!!!]

FGG had to revert to "legislative intent" instead of finding the specific code that would be violated.

There you go again, deliberate misrepresentation. What a joke.

[Discogodfather]

(1) One photo shall depict the bulletlbutton style magazine release installed on the firearm

(2) One photo shall depict the firearm from the end of the barrel to the end of the stock if it is a long-gun or the point fiirthest from the end of the barrel if it is a pistol.

(3) The other two photos shall show the left side of the receiver/frame and right side of the receiver/frame.

Hi, does this AR have a bullet button? How can you tell?

[ifilef]

Quote:
Originally Posted by nagzul
With all due respect sir, the DOJ didn't give us a heads up. With out 5477 the BBs come off, and everyone understands that.
That's actually a very good point.

------------------------------------------

That's actually a very good point.

Ifilef, how would you see the whole situation if the DOJ came out with the rule that says "once registered, the BB can be removed?" Would you find that inconsistent with the penal code?

Nagzul, I was on the fence about it because it was not lawfully possessed under 30900 (b)(1) and it IS a felony.

Moreover, those who would switch out, and who do now, will very likely be felony-arrested if captured. At least it's clearly stated out in the open so people not familiar with the new laws will have a better chance of avoiding a felony arrest and potential prosecution.

Best to wait and don't switch over to a mag release until the courts have their say. It is simply NOT WORTH THE RISK to shoot featured with mag release at this time and in light of the regulation which clearly tells us DOJ's position. Regulations do have the force of law.

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IVC- I'd be happy about it and I don't look a gift horse in the mouth. I don't really think I'd have reviewed the statutes with as much scrutiny if they came out with a reg sanctioning switching over to a standard magazine release.

But I was not at all surprised, or surprised very little when 5477 was adopted.

Before July last year I had posted that the legislature or DOJ would never permit us to go from BB to standard mag release. It's entirely contrary to the intent of the AWCA to inundate CA with thousands of SACF featured weapons with standard mag releases that were deemed unlawful over 15 years ago, e.g., a felony to possess and shoot with them.

However, in later posts I was nevertheless hopeful like the rest here, and was going to delay registration until later in the year until I knew that mag releases were going to be allowed, or not.

I don't plan on registering until later this year because there's no motivating reason to at this time.

[Crazed_SS]

(1) One photo shall depict the bulletlbutton style magazine release installed on the firearm

(2) One photo shall depict the firearm from the end of the barrel to the end of the stock if it is a long-gun or the point fiirthest from the end of the barrel if it is a pistol.

(3) The other two photos shall show the left side of the receiver/frame and right side of the receiver/frame.

Hi, does this AR have a bullet button? How can you tell?

Well we can see it in the picture?

Trick question?

Good pics by the way. I spent about 30 mins taking pics and came up with them looking just like yours there. Absent any examples of how the pics should look, I think this is pretty much it...... except for your S/N isnt visible, but obviously that's because you're taking example photos for the forum here..

[Smedkcuf]

What's to stop them from asking for receipts if they can't make a determination from the pictures?

[Discogodfather]

Well we can see it in the picture?

Trick question?

Good pics by the way. I spent about 30 mins taking pics and came up with them looking just like yours there. Absent any examples of how the pics should look, I think this is pretty much it...... except for your S/N isnt visible, but obviously that's because you're taking example photos for the forum here..

It's there? Where?

Not trying to trick anyone, it's there, but what are you basing that observation on? A regular mag release looks a awful lot like a bullet button. In fact it's almost impossible to tell from a bad photo.

When LEO did come to me at a range once to verify my rifle was legal years back, he did not look at it and say "ok, you're good". He pushed the button, which did not work, and said "ok, you're good".

Is there a law against making a BB look like a regular mag release, exactly?

[veeklog]

Tried to go onto the site to see if the registration period is open; nothing yet.