2Qs: Heller-Nordyke and: (1) Gun Stores, and (2) WalMart

[Paladin]

The post re HSC requirements and the "ban by excessive regulation" tactic (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=142080) made me remember the much beloved and missed SF Gun Exchange and Siegle's Gun Store. (Traders is now among the living dead). For some history, see:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2000/07/13/MN89677.DTL&type=printable

http://www.jewishsf.com/content/2-0-/module/displaystory/story_id/14110/edition_id/273/format/html/displaystory.html

My Two Questions:

(1) Will Heller via Nordyke stop targeted local taxes that drive gun stores out of business?

(2) After incorporation of Heller via Nordyke, if we CGN'ers (and the NRA?) launch a campaign to get Wal-Marts in the SF Bay Area to sell guns and ammo again, will they be more willing agree? For more info, see:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=103875

[hoffmang]

My Two Questions:

(1) Will Heller via Nordyke stop targeted local taxes that drive gun stores out of business?

The general answer is yes. Taxes that are not evenly collected on all general businesses are proscribed against commerce in fundamental rights. A close example to this is Minneapolis Star v. Minnesota Commissioner of Revenue.

(2) After incorporation of Heller via Nordyke, if we CGN'ers (and the NRA?) launch a campaign to get Wal-Marts in the SF Bay Area to sell guns and ammo again, will they be more willing agree? For more info, see:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=103875

No idea on this one. Private businesses like Walmart have all sorts of calculations that go in. Remember that this area is hostile to even their existence - much less their selling of firearms.

-Gene

[Paladin]

Thanks Gene.

A follow up question: I assume in the past they were upheld despite our state's preemption law. After Heller-Nordyke, will our RKBA in this state be so strong that those anti-RKBA local tax ordinances constructively fall under that same state preemption law?

Re. Wal-Mart: sure, it will still ultimately be a business decision. But after Heller-Nordyke, the legal risk will have diminished to the point of irrelevance in making that decision. Thus, the business decision will be based upon political, MSM PR, and financial considerations. Presumably, the financial decision is a "yes," since they choose to sell guns & ammo at other stores. That leaves political and MSM PR considerations. Perhaps CGN and the NRA in a year or two might be able to get Wal-Mart to bite the political/MSM PR bullet (pun intended), if we can convince them we'll significantly improve their finances by buying from them.

IMO, a ton more newbies and their kids will be exposed to guns & ammo at Wal-Mart than would ever go to the few gun stores remaining in the Bay Area.

[sorensen440]

Walmart's decision was more political then anything else IIRC.

[BitterVoter]

The fact is the even in my area some Wal-Marts don't even sell ammunition, but others sell ammunition, scopes, and other great sporting accessories indicates to me that either the store/regional managers are given large amounts of power in this regard, or there is some other influence bigger than Wal-Mart corporate at work here.

I am pretty sure myself that if the legal issues regarding it go away it might be upon us at that time to influence them to sell them AND maybe accept OC!! Hay hay!

[hoffmang]

A follow up question: I assume in the past they were upheld despite our state's preemption law. After Heller-Nordyke, will our RKBA in this state be so strong that those anti-RKBA local tax ordinances constructively fall under that same state preemption law?

These taxes are not pre-empted. They'll have to be litigated once or twice to show that the 2A via the 14A restricts the unequal treatment of firearms. Standard city and statewide sales tax may apply but a specific tax on ammo or firearms can't stand any level of heightened scrutiny.

Re. Wal-Mart: sure, it will still ultimately be a business decision. But after Heller-Nordyke, the legal risk will have diminished to the point of irrelevance in making that decision. Thus, the business decision will be based upon political, MSM PR, and financial considerations. Presumably, the financial decision is a "yes," since they choose to sell guns & ammo at other stores. That leaves political and MSM PR considerations. Perhaps CGN and the NRA in a year or two might be able to get Wal-Mart to bite the political/MSM PR bullet (pun intended), if we can convince them we'll significantly improve their finances by buying from them.

I've made the trek to sit in the crappy chairs in Arkansas. CGN will not get Walmart's attention. NRA however...

-Gene

[motorhead]

wally's decides (don't know on what level) which stores sell ammo. in s.d. county, most don't, only 3 that i know of.

[nicki]

Walmart

Alot has to do with local climate I guess.

Walmart in Fremont doesn't sell ammo, but the Walmart in Milpitas does.

As far as selling guns, I don't see that happening in California just becuase of paperwork involved on all gun transactions.

It doesn't take much to screw up.

Nicki

[DDT]

These taxes are not pre-empted. They'll have to be litigated once or twice to show that the 2A via the 14A restricts the unequal treatment of firearms. Standard city and statewide sales tax may apply but a specific tax on ammo or firearms can't stand any level of heightened scrutiny.

This seems like a slam dunk (an expensive slam dunk though) even without Nordyke. I would think that Heller is adequate on its own and standing should be a piece of cake as I'm sure any business owner so impacted would be more than happy to participate. Money, on the other hand, is always scarce and the reason the government gets away with this stuff, you can't easily recover court costs and they can just dip into the general fund to beat you down. Then raise taxes to replenish the general fund.

[ZRX61]

Alot has to do with local climate I guess.

Walmart in Fremont doesn't sell ammo, but the Walmart in Milpitas does.

As far as selling guns, I don't see that happening in California just becuase of paperwork involved on all gun transactions.

It doesn't take much to screw up.

Nicki

Up in the Landscatter/Crimedale area we have at least 5 WallyWorlds & 1 Sams Club. I remember seeing guns for sale in the central Palmdale location, but they closed that store & built a new SuperWally 1/2 mile away that doesn't appear to have guns. If they do, they aren't anywhere near the ammo.
In the central Lancaster SuperWally I haven't seen guns & I'm unsure if the original store next door did or not.
I was at the central Lancaster Super Wally today & the ammo cabinet was just about empty....They had ONE 50ct box of Winchester 165gr JHP S&W .40& that was the extent of the handgun ammo that I saw...I left without spending any $$$

& if the Sams Club locations are for bulk buying.. how about pallets of ammo?

[Nodda Duma]

Even in Ridgecrest I haven't seen guns for sale in the Wal-Mart here in years...and if guns were to be sold in a Wal-Mart anywhere in CA, it'd be here (or maybe Needles).

-Jason

[ldivinag]

IIRC wallyworld made a deal with alameda county to stop selling ammo so they can open stores in oakland and other parts that they dont have a presence in...

hence no ammo in fremont, but 5 minutes away via I-880 down in milpitas, the clerk REGILIO will take his time to help you out with ammo...

[formerTexan]

I remember buying a 10/22 and a Mossberg 500 from the Livermore Wal-Mart back in the late 90's or 2000. Wonder if they still sell firearms...

[Quiet]

I remember buying a 10/22 and a Mossberg 500 from the Livermore Wal-Mart back in the late 90's or 2000. Wonder if they still sell firearms...

In April 2003, Walmart stopped selling firearms in CA.
Due to being fined $14.5 millon for 2891 violation from 6 NorCal Wal-Marts. Violations ranged from selling to prohibited persons (ie. felons), letting purchasers take possession of firearms before the 10 day waiting period was over and selling ammo to minors.

Wal-Mart has no plans in selling firearms in CA ever again.

[RRangel]

In April 2003, Walmart stopped selling firearms in CA.
Due to being fined $14.5 millon for 2891 violation from 6 NorCal Wal-Marts. Violations ranged from selling to prohibited persons (ie. felons), letting purchasers take possession of firearms before the 10 day waiting period was over and selling ammo to minors.

Wal-Mart has no plans in selling firearms in CA ever again.

Bingo. Wal-Mart is just lucky they have that kind of money to throw around. They screwed big, and now they don't sell firearms. I bet some of the gun dealers around Wal-Mart are breathing easier.