The Roster has essentially been nullified, frames available shortly.

[Kestryll]

Kestryll, nothing in 12001 references 12125. So for the purposes of rostering, a frame would appear not to be defined as a firearm or handgun/pistol.

Okay.

The logic path that got me concerned was this:
the term "firearm" includes the frame or receiver of the weapon.-->...the term "any firearm" may be used in those sections, each firearm or the frame or receiver of the same shall constitute a distinct and separate offense under those sections.-->As used in this title, "firearm" means any device, designed to
be used as a weapon, from which is expelled through a barrel, a projectile by the force of any explosion or other form of combustion.-->As used in this title, the term "handgun" means any "pistol," "revolver," or "firearm capable of being concealed upon the person."

Since the frame is designated as a 'firearm' and 'handgun' means 'firearm capable of being concealed upon the person' and a frame can be concealed could they argue that the frame is a handgun and thus roster-able?

[nick]

The Mech Tech guys say this on their web page:

Legal Alert: This product is for sale to California dealers under limited conditions only. Although the product of itself is legal, the resulting combination with a pistol frame becomes illegal under California law. Please contact Mech-Tech for details relative to dealer sales in CA. At this time we know of no other states where the combination is not legal but we caution everyone to become aware of relative state and local laws.

Can anybody shed more light on this? Are they referring to CA's AW laws, since without some sort of magazine lock this would turn into a pistol-gripped centerfire rifle?

That reminds me... I need to go look at one of my 1911 guns and see if it looks like the regular magazine catch would still work properly and not pop out of position when pressed if the button portion was machined off to sit flush with the frame surface, or slightly below.

A guy here on Calguns shaved off a part of the mag release on his Glock frame to accomodate for this.

[hoffmang]

Black pistol legalities: making ownership of black rifles look easy.

The flow chart on these is going to be a PIA.

Note that a NRF pistol that has a detachable magazine can not have a forward hand grip - which is not the same as a forward pistol grip...

Here is the pertinent section of the law:

(4) A semiautomatic pistol that has the capacity to accept a
detachable magazine and any one of the following:
(A) A threaded barrel, capable of accepting a flash suppressor,
forward handgrip, or silencer.
(B) A second handgrip.
(C) A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely
encircles, the barrel that allows the bearer to fire the weapon
without burning his or her hand, except a slide that encloses the
barrel.
(D) The capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location
outside of the pistol grip.
(5) A semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine that has the
capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.

-Gene

[nick]

Yes, but I don't see why anybody would really want a mag-locked Glock carbine conversion thing that can never be re-assembled as a Glock handgun. Oh well, takes all kinds I guess.

Same reason we want a Hi-Point 9mm or .40 carbine - it's cool and shoots well

But it being interchangeable would be so much better, of course.

[M. Sage]

Same reason we want a Hi-Point 9mm or .40 carbine - it's cool and shoots well

But it being interchangeable would be so much better, of course.

Yeah, but the locked mag is what I keep hanging up on. Seems to really cut the utility...

[nick]

Okay.

The logic path that got me concerned was this:
the term "firearm" includes the frame or receiver of the weapon.-->...the term "any firearm" may be used in those sections, each firearm or the frame or receiver of the same shall constitute a distinct and separate offense under those sections.-->As used in this title, "firearm" means any device, designed to
be used as a weapon, from which is expelled through a barrel, a projectile by the force of any explosion or other form of combustion.-->As used in this title, the term "handgun" means any "pistol," "revolver," or "firearm capable of being concealed upon the person."

Since the frame is designated as a 'firearm' and 'handgun' means 'firearm capable of being concealed upon the person' and a frame can be concealed could they argue that the frame is a handgun and thus roster-able?

But it doesn't expel a projectile through a barrel. It has no barrel. So the "firearm capable of being concealed upon the person" part doesn't apply, since it's not a firearm yet.

[hoffmang]

Okay.

The logic path that got me concerned was this:
the term "firearm" includes the frame or receiver of the weapon.-->...the term "any firearm" may be used in those sections, each firearm or the frame or receiver of the same shall constitute a distinct and separate offense under those sections.-->As used in this title, "firearm" means any device, designed to
be used as a weapon, from which is expelled through a barrel, a projectile by the force of any explosion or other form of combustion.-->As used in this title, the term "handgun" means any "pistol," "revolver," or "firearm capable of being concealed upon the person."

Your logic error is in bold above. The term "firearm" includes the frame or receiver only in the specifically outlined Sections of which the Roster's section isn't one.

-Gene

[nick]

The flow chart on these is going to be a PIA.

Note that a NRF pistol that has a detachable magazine can not have a forward hand grip - which is not the same as a forward pistol grip...

Here is the pertinent section of the law:


-Gene

Not too many handguns have a forward grip. Or am I missing something?

[Kestryll]

Your logic error is in bold above. The term "firearm" includes the frame or receiver only in the specifically outlined Sections of which the Roster's section isn't one.

-Gene

Ahh.. okay.

I'm not trying to be a wet blanket, I'm just looking for where they can try to trip us up.

[elSquid]

As of now:
- We've just killed the Roster.
- We've just killed mag disconnects.
- We've just killed LCIs.
- We've just killed microstamping (again).

And one handgun per month as well.

Are there federal issues in play if an existing handgun is stripped to the frame, with the intent to reassemble with the same parts after the 4473? Maybe a "once a handgun, always a handgun" sort of thing? I don't know if the feds might take a dim view of this. Stripped frames could be used to circumvent multiple purchase reporting requirements.

Still, for virgin frames, this sounds excellent!

-- Michael

[hoffmang]

Not too many handguns have a forward grip. Or am I missing something?

Nah. I just want an unlisted NRF Uzi...

-Gene

[Kestryll]

One step at a time we're taking our rights back.

Damn this site never ceases to tickle the hell out of me!

[69Mach1]

Nah. I just want an unlisted NRF Uzi...

-Gene

Me too, and a MAC10 (copy).

[hoffmang]

And one handgun per month as well.

Are there federal issues in play if an existing handgun is stripped to the frame, with the intent to reassemble with the same parts after the 4473? Maybe a "once a handgun, always a handgun" sort of thing? I don't know if the feds might take a dim view of this. Stripped frames could be used to circumvent multiple purchase reporting requirements.

Still, for virgin frames, this sounds excellent!

Federal law is not state law. If you bought more than 1 NRF, an FFL would need to turn in the multiple handgun purchase form.

-Gene

[CHS]

And one handgun per month as well.

Holy crap. I hadn't even thought about that. You're right.

There would be nothing wrong with receiving 10 1911 frames in one 4473/DROS transaction.

Oh
My
God.

More AWESOME unintended consequences