The Roster has essentially been nullified, frames available shortly.

[nick]

http://www.mechtechsys.com/

[nick]

The questions will be, unless I'm missing something, will it need to be registered as a handgun if a handgun is built on it (most likely a yes, since handguns have to be registered here). and so if yes, then how? Also, if a carbine is built on the frame, can it be then re-built into a handgun, and vise versa?

[M. Sage]

I am slow...how are these killed?

Because the roster is irrelevant. If you want a handgun on the roster, you buy a frame and a parts kit. When the frame is transferred to you, you assemble the handgun. A frame isn't a handgun, pistol or "firearm capable of being concealed on the person" according to CA law and is therefore exempt from the stupid list.

The questions will be, unless I'm missing something, will it need to be registered as a handgun if a handgun is built on it (most likely a yes, since handguns have to be registered here). and so if yes, then how? Also, if a carbine is built on the frame, can it be then re-built into a handgun, and vise versa?

1: Yes, you would have to register it. I'm not sure about the process, but it might simply be the voluntary reg.

2A: Yes. You can assemble it as a carbine as long as you follow AW laws and don't mess up there. A 1911 carbine, for example, would have to have a fixed magazine and follow OAL requirements.

2B: No, you cannot return your handgun frame into handgun form after assembling it as a carbine. Once it's a rifle if you shorten it you have a SBR.

[CHS]

[I](I've moved this from tail-end of another thread started by bdsmchs).
Thanks for tickling the bear, Christian

Hey, no problem.

I've been discussing this in a few other threads with Freakshow and Ke6 (Jack), but it never went anywhere. I decided I had to do something about it

[Kestryll]

From the other thread:

Gents, I think we're on to something. I'm going to talk to some of "the right people" but I want to issue a challenge.

PC 12125:

12125. (a) Commencing January 1, 2001, any person in this state who manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state for sale, keeps for sale, offers or exposes for sale, gives, or lends any unsafe handgun shall be punished by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year.

Note that it doesn't include frame or receiver there.

The other place to look is 12001:

12001. (a) (1) As used in this title, the terms "pistol,"
"revolver," and "firearm capable of being concealed upon the person"
shall apply to and include any device designed to be used as a
weapon, from which is expelled a projectile by the force of any
explosion, or other form of combustion, and that has a barrel less
than 16 inches in length. These terms also include any device that
has a barrel 16 inches or more in length which is designed to be
interchanged with a barrel less than 16 inches in length.
(2) As used in this title, the term "handgun" means any "pistol,"
"revolver," or "firearm capable of being concealed upon the person."
(b) As used in this title, "firearm" means any device, designed to
be used as a weapon, from which is expelled through a barrel, a
projectile by the force of any explosion or other form of combustion.

(c) As used in Sections 12021, 12021.1, 12070, 12071, 12072,
12073, 12078, 12101, and 12801 of this code, and Sections 8100, 8101,
and 8103 of the Welfare and Institutions Code, the term "firearm"
includes the frame or receiver of the weapon.
...
(k) For purposes of Sections 12021, 12021.1, 12025, 12070, 12072,
12073, 12078, 12101, and 12801 of this code, and Sections 8100, 8101,
and 8103 of the Welfare and Institutions Code, notwithstanding the
fact that the term "any firearm" may be used in those sections, each
firearm or the frame or receiver of the same shall constitute a
distinct and separate offense under those sections.

The frame of a handgun or pistol is not defined as a handgun or pistol in 12001 (c) means that it is just a frame.

Where am I incorrect? Let's try to find the hole in that logic.

-Gene

Okay, I've been up for nearly 20 hours straight so I could be a bit foggy but how do the parts in bold all interact with this?

Does it only define the frame as a firearm and not specifically as a handgun or are they banking on it's status as a 'firearm capable of being concealed' to default it in to a 'handgun' somehow?

[nick]

RUGER LCP

thanks!

Just say green light

+1, that's just the model I was thinking

Or Seecamp in .380

[M. D. Van Norman]

[CalCop]

Alright, so let me get this straight...an "assault pistol" is legal so long as it has a bullet button, because then it is not longer an AP...and as long as it is registered as a pistol it is not an SBR...

Am I on the right track?

[CHS]

From the other thread:

Kestryll, nothing in 12001 references 12125. So for the purposes of rostering, a frame would appear not to be defined as a firearm or handgun/pistol.

[CHS]

Alright, so let me get this straight...an "assault pistol" is legal so long as it has a bullet button, because then it is not longer an AP...and as long as it is registered as a pistol it is not an SBR...

Am I on the right track?

An assault pistol is never legal in CA

A semi-automatic pistol, with a bullet button or similar magazine-locking device and magazine capacity of 10rd's or less is exempt from the pistol AW laws.

[nick]

1: Yes, you would have to register it. I'm not sure about the process, but it might simply be the voluntary reg.

2A: Yes. You can assemble it as a carbine as long as you follow AW laws and don't mess up there. A 1911 carbine, for example, would have to have a fixed magazine and follow OAL requirements.

2B: No, you cannot return your handgun frame into handgun form after assembling it as a carbine. Once it's a rifle if you shorten it you have a SBR.

So Mech Tech upper being interchangeable with the regular Glock or 1911 slide on a regular basis won't work then. Pity.

[M. Sage]

Alright, so let me get this straight...an "assault pistol" is legal so long as it has a bullet button, because then it is not longer an AP...and as long as it is registered as a pistol it is not an SBR...

Am I on the right track?

AW laws cover rifles, handguns and shotguns in some way. If a handgun that's off-list but otherwise has evil features has a mag lock, it's fine. As long as it's a handgun and doesn't have a stock, it's not an SBR. As long as the receiver or frame was never used as the basis for a rifle configuration, it's not an SBR. As long as it doesn't have something like a forward vertical grip, it's not an AOW.

Black pistol legalities: making ownership of black rifles look easy.

[hoffmang]

There will be more to this story soon to convince the 58 DAs.

Kes: A frame or receiver is only a firearm under California law for Sections 12021, 12021.1, 12070, 12071, 12072, 12073, 12078, 12101, and 12801 of this code, and Sections 8100, 8101, and 8103 of the Welfare and Institutions Code. The handgun roster is in Section 12125 which isn't in the above list.

Alison goofed and I bet she noticed it back when she first thought of what lead to this letter (read footnote "second" 3.) Also remember the legislative history of AB-2728 which stated that the frame or receiver of an OLL is not a firearm.

That also explains better what Alison was thinking when she wrote this letter... She's still technically incorrect in that letter, but I know better know why she was thinking that.

-Gene

[383green]

http://www.mechtechsys.com/

The Mech Tech guys say this on their web page:

Legal Alert: This product is for sale to California dealers under limited conditions only. Although the product of itself is legal, the resulting combination with a pistol frame becomes illegal under California law. Please contact Mech-Tech for details relative to dealer sales in CA. At this time we know of no other states where the combination is not legal but we caution everyone to become aware of relative state and local laws.

Can anybody shed more light on this? Are they referring to CA's AW laws, since without some sort of magazine lock this would turn into a pistol-gripped centerfire rifle?

That reminds me... I need to go look at one of my 1911 guns and see if it looks like the regular magazine catch would still work properly and not pop out of position when pressed if the button portion was machined off to sit flush with the frame surface, or slightly below.

[M. Sage]

Yes, but I don't see why anybody would really want a mag-locked Glock carbine conversion thing that can never be re-assembled as a Glock handgun. Oh well, takes all kinds I guess.