Forming a State Militia

[Annie Oakley]

PC 11460
(a) Any two or more persons who assemble as a paramilitary organization for the purpose of practicing with weapons shall be punished by imprisonment in a county jail for not more than one year or by a fine of not more than one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both that fine and imprisonment.
As used in this subdivision, "paramilitary organization" means an organization which is not an agency of the United States government or of the State of California, or which is not a private school meeting the requirements set forth in Section 48222 of the Education Code, but which engages in instruction or training in guerrilla warfare or sabotage, or which, as an organization, engages in rioting or the violent disruption of, or the violent interference with, school activities.
(b)(1) Any person who teaches or demonstrates to any other person the use, application, or making of any firearm, explosive, or destructive device, or technique capable of causing injury or death to persons, knowing or having reason to know or intending that these objects or techniques will be unlawfully employed for use in, or in the furtherance of a civil disorder, or any person who assembles with one or more other persons for the purpose of training with, practicing with, or being instructed in the use of any firearm, explosive, or destructive device, or technique capable of causing injury or death to persons, with the intent to cause or further a civil disorder, shall be punished by imprisonment in the county jail for not more than one year or by a fine of not more than one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both that fine and imprisonment.
Nothing in this subdivision shall make unlawful any act of any peace officer or a member of the military forces of this state or of the United States, performed in the lawful course of his or her official duties.
(2) As used in this section:
(A) "Civil disorder" means any disturbance involving acts of violence which cause an immediate danger of or results in damage or injury to the property or person of any other individual.
(B) "Destructive device" has the same meaning as in Section 12301.
(C) "Explosive" has the same meaning as in Section 12000 of the Health and Safety Code.
(D) "Firearm" means any device designed to be used as a weapon, or which may readily be converted to a weapon, from which is expelled a projectile by the force of any explosion or other form of combustion, or the frame or receiver of this weapon.
(E) "Peace officer" means any peace officer or other officer having the powers of arrest of a peace officer, specified in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2.

This is actually a very interesting law. So I'm wondering, what if a group of people who do re-enactments, practices ? Will they be deemed an unlawful organization ? What if that same group of people form a historic unit for the purposes of re-enactment like say Americal or how about the Vietnam era 101st Airborne ? It just seems so broad as to almost cancel itself out. Also, how does one prove that they were practicing to participate in civil disorder ? If they aren't wearing uniforms, but practicing combat type shooting techniques, does that constitute an illegal militia ? This seems like such and odd law. Oh, I almost forgot, and how does this compare or contrast with section 122 of the military and veterans code in California ?

[nick]

I don't know, but to me... 2A...



Lets look at this...The 2nd says we can have militias of the people, and that they can be regulated, not eliminated. I think we need to work on this section in the next court case.

Well-regulated, in the context of the day it was written, actually means 'well-run', not 'well regulated'.

[Theseus]

Well-regulated, in the context of the day it was written, actually means 'well-run', not 'well regulated'.

I know, I didn't word my argument right.

[Seesm]

Dr Rockso:

http://www.calguard.ca.gov/casmr/Pages/default.aspx

The easiest way to explain it would be that there are two major differences:

1) We can only be activated on Title 32 orders, meaning state orders only. We cannot go on Title 10 federal orders. Because states do not have the ability to declare, support, or fight a war, we cannot be sent overseas to fight. Our mission is to support the National Guard in state, meaning we do a lot of their training for them, anywhere from Army combatives, to kicking in doors and entering buildings. We provide them with professional services like doctors, dentists, and lawyers as well. And we also help them with their homeland security mission, which means a lot of different things.

2) For the most part, we are unpaid. We are not paid for drills, or most other support activities. As a recruiter, for example, I shell out a pretty penny driving to and from events, paying for food and parking, etc. It can add up. But, you do it for a reason which means more than money. However, soldiers put on State Active Duty orders can be paid, and are being paid at an increasing rate. Soldiers put on Emergency State Active Duty order are actually paid quite well. A couple of soldiers in my unit were activated for the fires, and made a pretty good paycheck for a week's worth of work, as well as paid lodging and meals.

Aside from those, we are a lot alike. On our ACU uniform, the only difference is the name tape that reads CALIFORNIA instead of US ARMY, and our beret flash is different. There are also subtle differences on our B's and C's. We work hand in hand with the Guard every day, in every aspect of what they do in state.

Interested in hearing more but not being recruited...

But you must send guns and money for me to be in!!

[capo]

For several reasons I can't engage in a discussion about the CSMR here, but you can email me at matthew.morelli@us.army.mil and I will be more than happy to answer any questions that you may have. In the end, you'll probably recruit yourself.

[The Director]

Certainly you can answer whether they train with firearms or not?

[jacques]

I would believe the jist is that you have to be intent on the overthrow of the govt. However, they can interpret that in many ways, like they interpret many things many ways. They can stretch their imagination.

The RWVA had a hard time getting into California. They were told the Appleseed was training a militia by the DOJ and LA said they can not do it there, see you in court if you want to fight it. Eventually they did anyway, and by no stretch of the imagination is it training a militia. It is like a good old family fun event.

This is actually a very interesting law. So I'm wondering, what if a group of people who do re-enactments, practices ? Will they be deemed an unlawful organization ? What if that same group of people form a historic unit for the purposes of re-enactment like say Americal or how about the Vietnam era 101st Airborne ? It just seems so broad as to almost cancel itself out. Also, how does one prove that they were practicing to participate in civil disorder ? If they aren't wearing uniforms, but practicing combat type shooting techniques, does that constitute an illegal militia ? This seems like such and odd law. Oh, I almost forgot, and how does this compare or contrast with section 122 of the military and veterans code in California ?

[capo]

Certainly you can answer whether they train with firearms or not?

Check your PM's

[Dr Rockso]

Check your PM's

Now you've got me curious again....PM me what you PM'd him

[capo]

lol

[RANGER295]

[capo]

Morelli is a great guy and answered a bunch of questions for me right after he joined. I couldn’t fit it in at the time but I will be finishing my masters soon and may join up then. It seems like a good program. Now that he is a recruiter and has more experience… I should re-ask a couple of my questions.

Thanks man!

And yes, I did go through a recruiter school and am a MOS'd recruiter for the CSMR. Our policies keep me from discussing everything in an open forum, but as mentioned, I am more than happy to discuss via PM, email, or phone. My recruiting line is 818.462.5061. If I don't answer, just leave me a message or email me with your number and I will call you back. We are looking to increase our ranks, and there is no better time than now to look into joining if you want to have military service under your belt, without being deployed overseas. We perform a role that is vital to the state, and according to the Guard's AG, they would not be capable of performing their mission without us.

[AKman]

I would believe the jist is that you have to be intent on the overthrow of the govt. However, they can interpret that in many ways, like they interpret many things many ways. They can stretch their imagination.

The RWVA had a hard time getting into California. They were told the Appleseed was training a militia by the DOJ and LA said they can not do it there, see you in court if you want to fight it. Eventually they did anyway, and by no stretch of the imagination is it training a militia. It is like a good old family fun event.

That was a pretty impressive militia at the Piru event last weekend. The Boy Scout disguise was pretty good too. I'm just glad Jojo didn't kick my arse and take away my gun.

[jacques]

That was a pretty impressive militia at the Piru event last weekend. The Boy Scout disguise was pretty good too. I'm just glad Jojo didn't kick my arse and take away my gun.

LOL.

Don't be dragging the Boy Scouts into this. They will ban them and round up every Eagle scout on record, like me, and put us in FEMA camps.

I was going to go to that one, would have been the 3rd. But stuff came up. Next month, for sure, got a new 10/22 with peep sites and all that.