Forming a State Militia

[Ironchef]

PC 11460
(a) Any two or more persons who assemble as a paramilitary organization for the purpose of practicing with weapons shall be punished by imprisonment in a county jail for not more than one year or by a fine of not more than one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both that fine and imprisonment.

So gaming clans are probably against the law.

[nobody_special]

PC 11460 deals with those that train with the intent of causing civil disorder or injury...it does not prohibit a group of people getting together to simply train/shoot.

That's not correct; no intent is necessary to violate PC 11460(a).

[Vectrexer]

PC 11460
(a) Any two or more persons who assemble as a paramilitary organization for the purpose of practicing with weapons shall be punished by imprisonment in a county jail for not more than one year or by a fine of not more than one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both that fine and imprisonment.
As used in this subdivision, "paramilitary organization" means an organization which is not an agency of the United States government or of the State of California, or which is not a private school meeting the requirements set forth in Section 48222 of the Education Code, but which engages in instruction or training in guerrilla warfare or sabotage, or which, as an organization, engages in rioting or the violent disruption of, or the violent interference with, school activities.
(b)(1) Any person who teaches or demonstrates to any other person the use, application, or making of any firearm, explosive, or destructive device, or technique capable of causing injury or death to persons, knowing or having reason to know or intending that these objects or techniques will be unlawfully employed for use in, or in the furtherance of a civil disorder, or any person who assembles with one or more other persons for the purpose of training with, practicing with, or being instructed in the use of any firearm, explosive, or destructive device, or technique capable of causing injury or death to persons, with the intent to cause or further a civil disorder, shall be punished by imprisonment in the county jail for not more than one year or by a fine of not more than one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both that fine and imprisonment.
Nothing in this subdivision shall make unlawful any act of any peace officer or a member of the military forces of this state or of the United States, performed in the lawful course of his or her official duties.
(2) As used in this section:
(A) "Civil disorder" means any disturbance involving acts of violence which cause an immediate danger of or results in damage or injury to the property or person of any other individual.
(B) "Destructive device" has the same meaning as in Section 12301.
(C) "Explosive" has the same meaning as in Section 12000 of the Health and Safety Code.
(D) "Firearm" means any device designed to be used as a weapon, or which may readily be converted to a weapon, from which is expelled a projectile by the force of any explosion or other form of combustion, or the frame or receiver of this weapon.
(E) "Peace officer" means any peace officer or other officer having the powers of arrest of a peace officer, specified in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2.

So what this is really saying is that all o the gun owners in Kali should move to an area of the state that is currently unincorporated. Then form a town. Then make every citizen who is a part of that town a Peace Officer.

Has some group tried that yet in Kali?

[FreedomIsNotFree]

That's not correct; no intent is necessary to violate PC 11460(a).

This has been hashed out before. To violate 11460(a) you would need to be declared a "paramilitary organization".

11460(a) Any two or more persons who assemble as a paramilitary organization for the purpose of practicing with weapons shall be punished by imprisonment in a county jail for not more than one year or by a fine of not more than one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both that fine and imprisonment.
As used in this subdivision, "paramilitary organization" means an organization which is not an agency of the United States government or of the State of California, or which is not a private school meeting the requirements set forth in Section 48222 of the Education Code, but which engages in instruction or training in guerrilla warfare or sabotage, or which, as an organization, engages in rioting or the violent disruption of, or the violent interference with, school activities.

Both State and Federal code defines the UNorganized militia, which we are a part of. Is it your contention that when members of the UNorganized militia get together to shoot or train that we are somehow violating the law? If so, that would outlaw every Shoot N' Q we've had at Calguns.....

If however, members of the UNorganized militia were intending to cause civil disobedience or harm, they could be charged. Although the word "intent" is not specifically mentioned in 11460(a), a court would definitely take that into consideration.

The confusion really has more to do with how poorly written much of the CA code is.

[nobody_special]

Is it your contention that when members of the UNorganized militia get together to shoot or train that we are somehow violating the law?

The unorganized militia is not a government "agency." So if those members engage in "instruction or training in guerrilla warfare or sabotage" as such things are defined in the PC, then yes, they are in violation of the law.

[FreedomIsNotFree]

The unorganized militia is not a government "agency." So if those members engage in "instruction or training in guerrilla warfare or sabotage" as such things are defined in the PC, then yes, they are in violation of the law.

You're still missing it. What constitutes "guerrilla warfare", which is not defined in the code? Some will argue, and have, that shooting at a silhouette could constitute guerrilla training. If you buy an anarchist cookbook at a gun show does that constitute "instruction"? If members of the UNorganized militia get together and trains on formations or warfare tactics, does that constitute "training in guerrilla warfare"? The list goes on and on.

Without some sort of intent to cause civil disobedience or illegal harm, 11460(a) means very little. Again, the code is poorly written and to rely on it without thinking through the possibilities is short sighted.

[Kestryll]

What constitutes "guerrilla warfare", which is not defined in the code?

Beating each other over the head with broken branches and throwing feces?

"...AHHH!! Corn in my eye!!!!!"

[FreedomIsNotFree]

Beating each other over the head with broken branches and throwing feces?

"...AHHH!! Corn in my eye!!!!!"

I needed a laugh...thanks.

[Ten Rounder]

Look at all the 'Paint Ballers', they train para military except they don't use real bullets and guns. Hurts like hell, and at lest you are alive after a match. To each his own. But their tactics are all geared around taking risks and learning from them.

[MonsterMan]

What about 3gun matches?

[FreedomIsNotFree]

The above examples are precisely why 11460(a) means little. Perhaps even "void for vagueness".

[bwiese]

So you wanna be a militia?
Not a bright thing.

Organize get guns etc - and then proclaim "hey we're a militia".

A governor then "calls up" the militia, including you.

As commander-in-chief of the state militia(s), he could say, "Turn in your guns" - and you'd be under orders.

[RANGER295]

So you wanna be a militia?
Not a bright thing.

Organize get guns etc - and then proclaim "hey we're a militia".

A governor then "calls up" the militia, including you.

As commander-in-chief of the state militia(s), he could say, "Turn in your guns" - and you'd be under orders.

Is this a danger if you are a CSMR soldier? The having to turn in your personal weapons that is.

[Liberty1]

Is this a danger if you are a CSMR soldier? The having to turn in your personal weapons that is.

Are you male between 18-45? Run for the hills!

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=mvc&group=00001-01000&file=120-130

MILITARY AND VETERANS CODE
SECTION 120-130





120. The militia of the State shall consist of the National Guard,
State Military Reserve and the Naval Militia--which constitute the
active militia --and the unorganized militia.



121. The unorganized militia consists of all persons liable to
service in the militia, but not members of the National Guard, the
State Military Reserve, or the Naval Militia.



122. The militia of the State consists of all able-bodied male
citizens and all other able-bodied males who have declared their
intention to become citizens of the United States, who are between
the ages of eighteen and forty-five, and who are residents of the
State, and of such other persons as may upon their own application be
enlisted or commissioned therein pursuant to the provisions of this
division, subject, however, to such exemptions as now exist or may be
hereafter created by the laws of the United States or of this State.



123. Whenever the Governor deems it necessary, he or she may order
an enrollment to be made by officers designated by the Governor, of
all persons liable to service in the militia. The enrollment shall
include any information that the Governor may require. Three copies
thereof shall be made: one copy shall be filed in the office of the
clerk of the county in which the enrollment is made, and two copies
in the office of the Adjutant General.



124. Enrollment shall be made upon such notice and in such manner
as the Governor may direct. Every person required by such notice to
enroll who fails or refuses so to do is guilty of a misdemeanor.



125. The following persons shall be exempt from military service:
(a) Persons exempt from military service by the laws of the United
States.
(b) Regular or duly ordained ministers of religion.
(c) Students preparing for the ministry in recognized theological
or divinity schools.
(d) Pilots and mariners actually employed in sea service by a
citizen of the United States.
The above persons shall not be exempt from enrollment but shall
file verified claims for exemption from military service in such
forms and manner as the Governor may direct.



126. The Governor shall appoint boards in number and personnel as
will best accomplish the enrollment and such boards shall be vested
with the authority and power of passing upon and determining the
claims of exemption filed under section 125. An appeal to the
Governor may be taken from the decision of the boards by the State or
any person interested in the matter and within the time prescribed
in regulations promulgated by the Governor.



127. When the National Guard and Naval Militia are on duty as a
combined force at any time, the commanding officer of the whole force
shall be designated by the Governor. When two or more officers are
on duty in the same place, camp, field, command or organization, the
Governor may assign the command to any one of such officers without
regard to seniority of rank or branch of service.



128. The unorganized militia may be called for active duty in case
of war, rebellion, insurrection, invasion, tumult, riot, breach of
the peace, public calamity or catastrophe, or other emergency, or
imminent danger thereof, or may be called forth for service under the
Constitution and laws of the United States. Whenever it is
necessary to call out any portion of the unorganized militia, the
Governor may call for and accept as many volunteers as are required
for such service, under regulations provided by this division.



129. Every member of the militia who is ordered out, or who
volunteers or is drafted under the provisions of this division and
who does not appear at the time and place designated by the Governor,
or under his authority, within twenty-four hours from such time, and
who does not produce a sworn certificate of physical disability from
a physician in good standing, is a deserter and shall be dealt with
as prescribed in the Articles of War of the United States, or by this
division.



130. (a) Members of the militia of the state shall not be
discriminated against in enlistments, promotions, or commissions on
any basis listed in subdivision (a) of Section 12940 of the
Government Code, as those bases are defined in Sections 12926 and
12926.1 of the Government Code, except as otherwise provided in
Section 12940 of the Government Code.
(b) It is hereby declared to be the policy of the State of
California that there be equality of treatment and opportunity for
all members of the militia of the state without regard to any basis
listed in subdivision (a) of Section 12940 of the Government Code, as
those bases are defined in Sections 12926 and 12926.1 of the
Government Code. This policy shall be put into effect in the militia
by rules and regulations to be issued by the Governor with due
regard to the powers of the federal government that are, or may be,
exercised over all the militia of the state with regard to positions
requiring federal recognition.




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[1859sharps]

While I believe the 2nd gives us the right to own personal arms of the type a typical infantrymen would need (rifles, shotguns, pistols), I do not believe we have the right to form our own armed organizations independent of the elected government.

I believe the city, county or state can form a armed militia independent of the federal government, if they chose to. but you and I can't and shouldn't. and for good reason.