Peņa v. Cid (Handgun Roster) **CERT DENIED 6-15-2020**

[cre8nhavoc]

The roster has survived, and likely will forever be with us. Look for it to be expanded to cover long arms as well. By the time another challenge works its way up to SCOTUS, the state can simply tweak it just enough to declare it "moot", and then start the whole process again. If your grandchildren are lucky, they may get to hear about how you used to enjoy shooting, just before their teachers in school remind them that only "bad" people like firearms.

I didn't see anywhere that said the handgun roster was staying permanently. All I read is SCOTUS wasn't taking anymore 2A cases... for now.

[SandHill]

Any possibility this can be challenged through the courts again? Let’s say after one of the judges retires and we actually get a conservative majority or is the handgun roster now written in stone?

Not much chance. You can petition for a rehearing, but strict time limits (25 days with some minor extensions) apply, and petition's

"grounds shall be limited to intervening circumstances of a substantial or controlling effect or to other substantial grounds not previously presented" https://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/supct/rule_44

Even if there re intervening circumstances (like circuit split) in the next 25 says, there is no reason to assume the this SCOTUS would rule differently on a rehearing petition filed within the next month. So, realistically, Pena is dead. A new case on sme grounds will take ten years to get to Supreme Court, give or take.

[Aguy]

NEW YORK STATE RIFLE & PISTOL ASSOCIATION, INC., ET AL., PETITIONERS v. CITY OF NEW YORK, NEW YORK, ET AL.

"And I share JUSTICE ALITO’s concern that some federal and state courts may not be properly applying Heller and McDonald. The Court should address that issue soon, perhaps in one of the several Second Amendment cases with petitions for cer-tiorari now pending before the Court."

Remember this? What a load of BS. I guess 'soon' to SCOTUS means 10 years

[Elgindy25]

“The tree of liberty needs to be watered with the blood of tyrants from time to time”

How many rights will the people allow to be eroded away before we realize our voices arent being heard and our RIGHTS (not privileges) are being trampled on! The supreme court justices are committing treason by encroaching on constitutionally protected rights or allowing lower states to do the same!

What is the line in the sand?

This country is going to hell very fast now, liberals are tearing up cartoons and rides at disney land because stuff hurts there feelings that was never an issue before.
State governors are allowing rioters and looters to do as they please, and they tying law enforcements hands behind there back because of the actions of some
Bad ones. Also a failure on the judicial side of things because for so long law enforcement has not been held to the same standards are the average citizen, which by the way regardless of
Your job or position where ever you are, we are all average citizens with no
More or less rights than anyone else.

Its time the constitution be enforced and those who are charged with upholding it, face the consequences for betraying it.

Dont forget we the people are the employers, not the
Other away around, but that will
Soon change if nothing is done to stop
This socialist trash.

Look what is happening in seattle
With this chaz nonsense, wait till that is happening elsewhere because that gives ideas to other trash elsewhere.

[ivanimal]

Crazy, I had such high hopes when we filed the complaint 11 years ago.

[godofgamblers]

I'm brainstorming on something to see if it's a possibility.

Besides revolvers, the only new (and oddball) "handgun" I saw on the roster was the Franklin Armory "bolt action" AR pistol. So let me ask this:

What would stop a manufacturer -- let's say Sig Sauer -- from creating a special "bolt action P365" which somehow blocked the reciprocation of a traditional slide, and also has a 11" barrel. Coincidentally enough, they'd also offer a genuine P365 slide and barrel for sale in California too. Since this started out as an original bolt-action model, the DOJ can't say it's been a semi-auto that has been altered.

Just thinking outloud about this. Obviously it's not an ideal solution and we peasants would still be stuck having to fork out extra money on a real slide after the fact. And yeah I'm sure the legislators would find a way to pass a new bill restricting said work-around. But at least it would be a half-solution, it might offer up a new court case when the legislators decide to infringe on our rights again, and they'd get much love from us peons here.

What say ye?

[bruss01]

My take on this?

We know Kavanaugh is eager to take a 2A case, he says so explicitly.

We know Alito, Thomas and Gorsuch are eager to take a 2A case, they wrote a 70 page dissent on the mootness decision in NYSRPA.

It only takes 4 justices to grant cert. It takes 5 to get a decision passed.

The obvious conclusion is that after protracted discussion, what-if scenarios and some prospective horse-trading... the four in this case were not persuaded that they could take a 2A case without risking a decision that causes more harm than good.

Which points the neon-sign arrow right at Roberts as being the weak link. He's in a position to insist on demands that would hobble the right in order to grant "some" relief. I think the four are holding back for now, thinking that if Trump wins in November they'll have a shot at another Trump appointment to SCOTUS. Once that happens, they can safely take a 2A case with assurance of getting a decent opinion written without so many compromises it basically means nothing.

[Tactical Bean]

I'm brainstorming on something to see if it's a possibility.

Besides revolvers, the only new (and oddball) "handgun" I saw on the roster was the Franklin Armory "bolt action" AR pistol. So let me ask this:

What would stop a manufacturer -- let's say Sig Sauer -- from creating a special "bolt action P365" which somehow blocked the reciprocation of a traditional slide, and also has a 11" barrel. Coincidentally enough, they'd also offer a genuine P365 slide and barrel for sale in California too. Since this started out as an original bolt-action model, the DOJ can't say it's been a semi-auto that has been altered.

Just thinking outloud about this. Obviously it's not an ideal solution and we peasants would still be stuck having to fork out extra money on a real slide after the fact. And yeah I'm sure the legislators would find a way to pass a new bill restricting said work-around. But at least it would be a half-solution, it might offer up a new court case when the legislators decide to infringe on our rights again, and they'd get much love from us peons here.

What say ye?

I think this would be a great alternative to the ridiculous off roster premiums.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BAJ475]

It's the end of an era lol. DONATE NOW!!!

I was wondering if you would appear to tell us "I told you so," not that you are not justified in doing so.

[speedrrracer]

I think the four are holding back for now, thinking that if Trump wins in November they'll have a shot at another Trump appointment to SCOTUS. Once that happens, they can safely take a 2A case with assurance of getting a decent opinion written without so many compromises it basically means nothing.

This has been the operating theory for some years now. First the problem was Kennedy, now it's Roberts. Let's hope there's nobody else in line behind those two, and that Trump wins re-election, and that we control the Senate, and that RBG / Breyer decide to retire tomorrow.

[BAJ475]

This has been the operating theory for some years now. First the problem was Kennedy, now it's Roberts. Let's hope there's nobody else in line behind those two, and that Trump wins re-election, and that we control the Senate, and that RBG / Breyer decide to retire tomorrow.

IMHO there is more to this. The rooster is a CA problem that has little or no effect in the rest of the country. As such, it does not have significant nation wide importance, unless it is merely being used to address a different 2A issue. If so, there could easily be better cases to address those issues.

[speedrrracer]

IMHO there is more to this. The rooster is a CA problem that has little or no effect in the rest of the country. As such, it does not have significant nation wide importance, unless it is merely being used to address a different 2A issue. If so, there could easily be better cases to address those issues.

First, it doesn't work that way. If Florida allowed slavery, it would still be just a Florida problem, and wouldn't have nationwide significance. See? Do you think SCOTUS would ignore the slaves in Florida because it wasn't a nationwide problem? Also, it is a nationwide problem, because of the impact on interstate commerce.

2nd, as Justice Thomas has said, the Court wouldn't fail to address a 1A case or an abortion case. The whole "better case" thing is a total crock of crap. SCOTUS can take ANY case it wants, and come to any decision it wants. Just look at abortion -- if there's no legal backing, they can invent crap. So don't give me "better case", it doesn't hold water.

Having said all that, I still agree with you that there could be more to this. For example, we now have 4 Justices on record whining about how cert is not granted to any 2A cases. Some say that means those 4 "know" that Roberts is against the 2A, and that's why they're not granting cert. Maybe, but I think not.

First, those 4 didn't complain on the same case -- it was 2 different cases, so we don't know who voted for / against cert in which cases. The assumption that these 4 Justices are in total lockstep is not a valid one.

Second, we have it direct from Justice Scalia that the Justices do not talk amongst themselves about the cases, and that there is no "horse trading" (remember the famous line, "An originalist has nothing to trade"), so if 4 wanted to grant cert, they wouldn't hesitate to do so. Perhaps others have more insight into the current workings of the Court than Scalia's view from a decade ago, but I doubt it.

[SDCarpenter]

What a bunch of nonsense.

[Foothills]

Seems like something did happen...

Not much chance. You can petition for a rehearing, but strict time limits (25 days with some minor extensions) apply, and petition's

"grounds shall be limited to intervening circumstances of a substantial or controlling effect or to other substantial grounds not previously presented" https://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/supct/rule_44

Even if there re intervening circumstances (like circuit split) in the next 25 says, there is no reason to assume the this SCOTUS would rule differently on a rehearing petition filed within the next month. So, realistically, Pena is dead. A new case on sme grounds will take ten years to get to Supreme Court, give or take.

Watching the news, it certainly seems like some things have been happening. Every store is sold out of everything. The intervening circumstances would seem to be that the roster prevents Californian's from buying anything during a time like this when other states are not so encumbered.

I'm not sure how to reach counsel for Pena, but the current empty inventory would seem to be ripe for including in a request for rehearing as "intervening circumstances." My guess is that a Covid-19 pandemic and civil unrest were not included in their original briefs. But that should be included now. Californians COULD order online and have these items delivered to a California FFL for a background check. The roster is what is standing in their way of defending themselves when the police refuse to do so.

[stag1500]

This has been the operating theory for some years now. First the problem was Kennedy, now it's Roberts. Let's hope there's nobody else in line behind those two, and that Trump wins re-election, and that we control the Senate, and that RBG / Breyer decide to retire tomorrow.

I agree. As disappointing as today is, it would be a million times worse if a bad decision came out which we could never get reversed. The door has not closed in our face and we still have a chance down the road.