2019 Fouts/Tolentino v Becerra: 10-17-22 Vacated and Remanded

[AlmostHeaven]

Three down Fouts to go! My guess is sometime before April.

Late March seems like a solid bet.

[Paladin]

I wonder how broad a ruling we?ll get if we win: nunchaku? Tonfa? Brass knuckles? Saps?

https://youtu.be/DlSKqtxCT7g?si=JTvSQdH5mnRs27tq

[SpudmanWP]

The key to Fouts is to reinforce what an "arm" is and that the only way to ban it is to use Heller's "dangerous and unusual" test reinforced with the Caetano decision.

This will most certainly apply to and be used in future cases about those items but Fouts can only overturn the challenged law in front of it.

[AlmostHeaven]

I certainly hope the Second Amendment plaintiffs win this case, but I must say. If anyone walks around in public intending to defend themselves using batons, nunchucks, brass knuckles, etc, when every criminal and their mothers illegally wield concealed handguns, I question their intelligence.

[SpudmanWP]

Think security guard who has a taser and a baton.

[Sgt Raven]

I certainly hope the Second Amendment plaintiffs win this case, but I must say. If anyone walks around in public intending to defend themselves using batons, nunchucks, brass knuckles, etc, when every criminal and their mothers illegally wield concealed handguns, I question their intelligence.

The "use of force continuum" applies to us it does to LEOs. You can't use deadly force until faced with "grave bodily injury or death".

[AlmostHeaven]

The "use of force continuum" applies to us it does to LEOs. You can't use deadly force until faced with "grave bodily injury or death".

I understand. However, imagine having an assailant swing fists at you. You draw a baton and strike the attacker with a solid whack. The man responds by lifting his shirt and producing a handgun.

Running away seems a better option that trying to fight on the streets with batons or nunchucks.

[yacko]

I understand. However, imagine having an assailant swing fists at you. You draw a baton and strike the attacker with a solid whack. The man responds by lifting his shirt and producing a handgun.

Running away seems a better option that trying to fight on the streets with batons or nunchucks.

And- That is exactly what *YOU* should do.

Dont tell other people what THEY should do.

You sound just like the anti's telling us what we "NEED" vs what we want.

You dont need a baton to run away!

Sounds just like You dont need more than 10 rounds or an AR15 for self defense.

[AlmostHeaven]

And- That is exactly what *YOU* should do.

Dont tell other people what THEY should do.

You sound just like the anti's telling us what we "NEED" vs what we want.

You dont need a baton to run away!

Sounds just like You dont need more than 10 rounds or an AR15 for self defense.

I like how telling people they ought to carry handguns for self-defense instead of metal sticks has become somehow twisted into an anti-2A statement.

Far from sounding like "you don't need more than 10 rounds or an AR-15 for self-defense", I literally claim that you need a semi-automatic firearm instead of caveman technology dressed up as a modern implement that the average armed street criminal would brush away like nothing.

I also plainly state that I would like Fouts v. Bonta to succeed, in order to set favorable Second Amendment precedent.

[yacko]

I like how telling people they ought to carry handguns for self-defense instead of metal sticks has become somehow twisted into an anti-2A statement.

Far from sounding like "you don't need more than 10 rounds or an AR-15 for self-defense", I literally claim that you need a semi-automatic firearm instead of caveman technology dressed up as a modern implement that the average armed street criminal would brush away like nothing.

I also plainly state that I would like Fouts v. Bonta to succeed, in order to set favorable Second Amendment precedent.

I know you're not an anti.

Read what you posted again that I called you on.... It reads the same as the anti arguement. Words matter. Context also matters.

If you said ' you shouldnt have to carry a stick- since you should be able to carry a gun'.... is very different than what you posted.

You said 'run away instead of fight with other weapons'.... since the bad guy might be carrying a gun......

Words matter-

[AlmostHeaven]

I know you're not an anti.

Read what you posted again that I called you on.... It reads the same as the anti arguement. Words matter. Context also matters.

If you said ' you shouldnt have to carry a stick- since you should be able to carry a gun'.... is very different than what you posted.

You said 'run away instead of fight with other weapons'.... since the bad guy might be carrying a gun......

Words matter-

Fair enough.

[Epaphroditus]

My EDC when a firearm is precluded (thus part is important as when our tyrants ban something effective we are left to find alternatives) is a stout tool grade hickory walking stick, a folding knife, a fixed blade knife, wakasashi, pepper spray ... a wide range of options. I would totally carry brass knuckles if possible - law abiding folks follow even the patently bad laws.

Except for the pepper spray all items in my EDC are deadly and I know how to use them effectively and efficiently. This is the point our elected representatives who continue to push the boundaries and ban effective options - I have options to deploy deadly force despite the restrictions.

At some point in some circumstances my options will be incapable of effective deployment (e.g. multiple armed assailants) and at that point simply running away is actually a likely death sentence!

Running away is simply not a viable option. One must stand and fight both literally (against immediate threats) and figuratively (against tyrants deadset on our enslavement). Stand and fight my friends!

[Rickybillegas]

My EDC when a firearm is precluded (thus part is important as when our tyrants ban something effective we are left to find alternatives) is a stout tool grade hickory walking stick, a folding knife, a fixed blade knife, wakasashi, pepper spray ... a wide range of options. I would totally carry brass knuckles if possible - law abiding folks follow even the patently bad laws.

Except for the pepper spray all items in my EDC are deadly and I know how to use them effectively and efficiently. This is the point our elected representatives who continue to push the boundaries and ban effective options - I have options to deploy deadly force despite the restrictions.

At some point in some circumstances my options will be incapable of effective deployment (e.g. multiple armed assailants) and at that point simply running away is actually a likely death sentence!

Running away is simply not a viable option. One must stand and fight both literally (against immediate threats) and figuratively (against tyrants deadset on our enslavement). Stand and fight my friends!

For many of us older folks, running ain't an option anymore. There was a day I could just about outrun anyone, including young punks. But arthritis in both knees starting about 3 years ago took care of that.

[AlmostHeaven]

My EDC when a firearm is precluded (thus part is important as when our tyrants ban something effective we are left to find alternatives) is a stout tool grade hickory walking stick, a folding knife, a fixed blade knife, wakasashi, pepper spray ... a wide range of options. I would totally carry brass knuckles if possible - law abiding folks follow even the patently bad laws.

Except for the pepper spray all items in my EDC are deadly and I know how to use them effectively and efficiently. This is the point our elected representatives who continue to push the boundaries and ban effective options - I have options to deploy deadly force despite the restrictions.

At some point in some circumstances my options will be incapable of effective deployment (e.g. multiple armed assailants) and at that point simply running away is actually a likely death sentence!

Running away is simply not a viable option. One must stand and fight both literally (against immediate threats) and figuratively (against tyrants deadset on our enslavement). Stand and fight my friends!

I agree that knives and pepper spray have their role. People have misinterpreted my dislike of batons for a general endorsement of running away. I believe in standing your ground, just perhaps not when you face an armed assailant with nothing but a fancy metal stick.

[SpudmanWP]

Saint Benitez just dropped the SJ for Fouts.
https://storage.courtlistener.com/re...44922.86.0.pdf

III. CONCLUSION
The Second Amendment protects a citizen’s right to defend one’s self with dangerous and lethal firearms. But not everybody wants to carry a firearm for selfdefense. Some prefer less-lethal weapons. A billy is a less-lethal weapon that may be used for self-defense. It is a simple weapon that most anybody between the ages of eight and eighty can fashion from a wooden stick, or a clothes pole, or a dowel rod. One can easily imagine countless citizens carrying these weapons on daily walks and hikes to defend themselves against attacks by humans or animals. To give full life to the core right of self-defense, every law-abiding responsible individual citizen has a constitutionally protected right to keep and bear arms like the billy for lawful purposes.

In early America and today, the Second Amendment right of self-preservation permits a citizen to “‘repel force by force’ when ‘the intervention of society in his behalf, may be too late to prevent that injury.’”66 The Founders of our country anticipated that as our nation matured circumstances might make the previous recognition of rights undesirable or inadequate. For that event, the Founders provided a built-in vehicle by which the Constitution could be amended, but a single state, no matter how well intended, may not do so, and neither can this court.

Plaintiffs in this case challenge California Penal Code ? 22210 as it applies to a billy. It is declared that the prohibition on a billy unconstitutionally infringes the Second Amendment rights of American citizens and it is hereby enjoined.