Miller v. Bonta 9th Ckt "assault weapons": Held for Duncan result 1-26-24

[GetMeCoffee]

I think that I am a reasonable person ...

I am a reasonable person, , ...

I think I worded that badly. It should have been "reasonable people could agree". I certainly did not mean to infer unreasonableness on anyone who would argue for a judgement from the DC with no stay offered.

And I appreciate the quote from Barry Goldwater. I would propose, though, that we have successfully defended liberty and obtained justice (on paper at least) and we're at the point now where we need to start looking to the future.

I recall learning about the aftermath of WWI and WWII. In WWI, the enemy was defeated and then made to feel the spoils of their defeat. The suffering created resentment which led to fury which quickly led to WWII. Conversely, In WWII, the enemy was defeated, but then was supported in rebuilding and joining life in the post-war world. This is a huge oversimplification, but it led to a far better outcome.

I'm applying this same concept to the recent 2A victory. We don't want resentment from our opponents. We want them to lose, knowing we played fairly, and then get over it. I'd like a world where - if someone sees my CCW when I reach up to the top shelf at the supermarket, they don't even think twice about it.

[PennypackPete]

The problem with that analogy is that Heller was their Hiroshima and Bruen was their Nagasaki, yet they are still fighting us. How are we going to rebuild them if they are still shooting?

[Bhobbs]

You do realize the Nazis were executed? We didn’t work with Nazis to rebuild Germans. We killed the Nazis and worked with the Germans to rebuild Germany.

[GetMeCoffee]

You do realize the Nazis were executed? We didn’t work with Nazis to rebuild Germans. We killed the Nazis and worked with the Germans to rebuild Germany.

I think the comparison holds. We need to sideline or politically defeat the rabid anti-gun legislators, anti-gun orgs and the anti-2A justices. Make them realize that continued anti-2A efforts are not only fruitless, but make them look foolish. An execution of the ideology if you will.

Then we win over the casual anti-gun citizenry, which erodes the financial support of anti-gun groups and makes anti-gun positions less attractive to politicians.

I've got personal experience bringing people back from million-mom and Hertzberg worship. It generally takes a riot or crime wave to start the conversation, then people are open to hearing how gun control is actually racist or how ridiculous the definition of an AW is or how arbitrary 10 rounds is.

[BAJ475]

I think I worded that badly. It should have been "reasonable people could agree". I certainly did not mean to infer unreasonableness on anyone who would argue for a judgement from the DC with no stay offered.

Did not take it as inferring or attempting to infer anyone was unreasonable. Reasonable people can disagree on many things.

And I appreciate the quote from Barry Goldwater. I would propose, though, that we have successfully defended liberty and obtained justice (on paper at least) and we're at the point now where we need to start looking to the future.

That quote made me think back to when I was a Goldwater supporter, driving around in my '64 Dodge with a 426 and 4 on the floor. A victory on on paper, but you will not have achieved true liberty until there is no rooster, no 1 in 30, no 10 day waits, no limit on magazine capacities, ARs, AKs and the like are merely modern sporting rifles, you do not need a permit to open or concealed carry, you do not need a background check to buy ammo, registration and special taxation of firearms and ammunition is prohibited and the reason for getting a concealed carry permit is to eliminate the need for NICS checks and to be able to carry in schools!

I recall learning about the aftermath of WWI and WWII. In WWI, the enemy was defeated and then made to feel the spoils of their defeat. The suffering created resentment which led to fury which quickly led to WWII. Conversely, In WWII, the enemy was defeated, but then was supported in rebuilding and joining life in the post-war world. This is a huge oversimplification, but it led to a far better outcome.

I'm applying this same concept to the recent 2A victory. We don't want resentment from our opponents. We want them to lose, knowing we played fairly, and then get over it. I'd like a world where - if someone sees my CCW when I reach up to the top shelf at the supermarket, they don't even think twice about it.

Hey, that world exist in Idaho.

[Metal God]

Correct me if I’m wrong but the Supreme Court after Heller did not immediately grant CERT to several “ controversial” cases , then vacate them and send them back for review under their new guidelines like this SCOTUS did . I believe it's very different this time and the Supreme Court is serious ! I’d say it’s likely they are serious because of the crap all the lower courts have pulled since Heller . Not to mention Thomas pointing out how he is tired of the Second Amendment being treated like a second class right .

Yes I know I could be wrong but I believe it’s different this time and it will stay different until the make up of the this SCOTUS changes .

I'm applying this same concept to the recent 2A victory. We don't want resentment from our opponents. We want them to lose, knowing we played fairly, and then get over it. I'd like a world where - if someone sees my CCW when I reach up to the top shelf at the supermarket, they don't even think twice about it.

I agree completely , no need to rub there face in it . Think of it as good sportsmanship or simply being civil . Something this whole country needs to get back to . Here's there rub though . The senate blocked Obama's nomination after Scalia died so even when the anti's loose it will always be an unfair outcome to them in there eyes and to be honest that idea is not completely lost on me .

[gun toting monkeyboy]

I don't think it matters what we do. The other side hates us, and always will. Trying to play fair and be nice will not work. They will only see it as weakness, and try to come up with new ways to get back at us.

This is one of those situations where we need to crush their souls utterly. To grind their will to fight this battle under heel until they give up any hope of resurrecting this kind of legislation. We need to stamp out the very concept of our rights being somehow negotiable. Because they are not. We will offer them no quarter. We will give them no olive branch to soothe their hurt feelings and salve our conscience. Because they would happily destroy our rights if they were able to, and would do exactly the same thing to us if they had won. Do not fall into the trap of being magnanimous in victory. They must learn that our rights are inviolable. And that we will no longer allow them to be bargained away for "the children" or "public safety" or any of the other reasons they have come up with over the past century and a half. We won. You will not ever win again. Don't even try.

-Mb

I think I worded that badly. It should have been "reasonable people could agree". I certainly did not mean to infer unreasonableness on anyone who would argue for a judgement from the DC with no stay offered.

And I appreciate the quote from Barry Goldwater. I would propose, though, that we have successfully defended liberty and obtained justice (on paper at least) and we're at the point now where we need to start looking to the future.

I recall learning about the aftermath of WWI and WWII. In WWI, the enemy was defeated and then made to feel the spoils of their defeat. The suffering created resentment which led to fury which quickly led to WWII. Conversely, In WWII, the enemy was defeated, but then was supported in rebuilding and joining life in the post-war world. This is a huge oversimplification, but it led to a far better outcome.

I'm applying this same concept to the recent 2A victory. We don't want resentment from our opponents. We want them to lose, knowing we played fairly, and then get over it. I'd like a world where - if someone sees my CCW when I reach up to the top shelf at the supermarket, they don't even think twice about it.

[2761377]

^^^

another way to say it-

when you get your foot on their neck, finish them off.

as a lifelong principle.

[Batman]

[Super Chicken]

I don't think it matters what we do. The other side hates us, and always will. Trying to play fair and be nice will not work. They will only see it as weakness, and try to come up with new ways to get back at us.

This is one of those situations where we need to crush their souls utterly. To grind their will to fight this battle under heel until they give up any hope of resurrecting this kind of legislation. We need to stamp out the very concept of our rights being somehow negotiable. Because they are not. We will offer them no quarter. We will give them no olive branch to soothe their hurt feelings and salve our conscience. Because they would happily destroy our rights if they were able to, and would do exactly the same thing to us if they had won. Do not fall into the trap of being magnanimous in victory. They must learn that our rights are inviolable. And that we will no longer allow them to be bargained away for "the children" or "public safety" or any of the other reasons they have come up with over the past century and a half. We won. You will not ever win again. Don't even try.

-Mb

Very well said!!! Full stop as the pinkos say.

[homelessdude]

You can win without becoming the A&&hole your fighting.

[GetMeCoffee]

You can win without becoming the A&&hole your fighting.

That is the preferred way. I am reminded of:

Beware that, when fighting monsters, you yourself do not become a monster... for when you gaze long into the abyss. The abyss gazes also into you.

I'm told this was also quoted by Batman. QED.

[homelessdude]

In many cases we are dealing with people who don't figure out problems based on logic. They usually use emotion and feelings. Many of them will not stop until their feelings arguments are destroyed. They will confuse kindness for weakness and try to compromise if they are losing. The problem is compromise to them means we have to give them something for nothing in return. The cake cartoon comes to mind. I don't see a cumbia moment in either sides future so lets win, then shore up our win in every way possible. Then we can enjoy our freedom while the other side plots further attacks. If we are realistic and know they are coming we can stop them. Don't ever think they will become friendly unless you like getting knifed in the back. They chose to take our rights away. They are the enemy. With that said don't mistake my above statement about becoming them as lack of resolve to win. Brutally if necessary.

Just for our watchful friends. This statement in no way implies breaking the law.

[GetMeCoffee]

In many cases we are dealing with people who don't figure out problems based on logic. They usually use emotion and feelings. Many of them will not stop until their feelings arguments are destroyed. They will confuse kindness for weakness and try to compromise if they are losing. The problem is compromise to them means we have to give them something for nothing in return. The cake cartoon comes to mind. I don't see a cumbia moment in either sides future so lets win, then shore up our win in every way possible. Then we can enjoy our freedom while the other side plots further attacks. If we are realistic and know they are coming we can stop them. Don't ever think they will become friendly unless you like getting knifed in the back. They chose to take our rights away. They are the enemy. With that said don't mistake my above statement about becoming them as lack of resolve to win. Brutally if necessary.

Just for our watchful friends. This statement in no way implies breaking the law.

I agree with your assessment insofar as the "professional" gun grabbers (e.g. the gun control lobby and their political lap dogs). But there are also the masses of regular people who only hate us because they've been fed the "evil NRA" BS. It's the support of these regular folks that keep the engine running. They are also the ones that can readily realize what a load of crap they've been fed after they watch this play out.

All we need to do is not behave like they have been told to expect. I mean, they are expecting armed rednecks to roam the street shooting hippies and minorities. Obviously that won't happen. They are also expecting us to grind their face in the loss - because we're evil and don't care about their concerns or fears. I think we need to prove them wrong at every turn. This will significantly lessen their support of the Bradys, Giffords, Bloombergs etc. As far as the directors and officers of those organizations - well, they deserve to have their a** handed to them and have their souls crushed (legally speaking of course).

[johncage]

if they were capable of figuring things out, they'd had done so....decades ago. most of these idiots go through life gobbling up every single nugget of crap dropped out the democrat's rear end. we've tried walking on egg shells just to avoid offending the sensibility of these dunces so they could see things logically. it hasn't worked, it won't work because it doesn't work. the media will have them seeing and believing whatever they want. your personal behavior matters not.