Miller v. Bonta 9th Ckt "assault weapons": Held for Duncan result 1-26-24

[ar15barrels]

However I dont Agree that reconfiguring the ca7 constitutes manufacturing an unsafe handgun.
It's my understanding that it's a pretty common practice to Take a single action exempt revolver And make it double action. But I'm not sure this is the right forum that discussion.

There is no law against converting single actions to double actions.
There is a specific law against converting a semi-automatic designed pistol to a non-semi-auto for transfer purposes and then converting back to a semi-auto.

Article 4 (commencing with Section 31900) and Article 5 (commencing with Section 32000) shall apply to a semiautomatic pistol that has been temporarily or permanently altered so that it will not fire in a semiautomatic mode.

The CA7 is clearly a semi-auto pistol that has been converted to a non-semi-auto in order to get added to the roster with only the drop tests.
In order to justify the CA7 NOT being of a semi-auto design, you would have to prove that the CA7's receiver design is NOT primarily used to build semi-autos.

On another note please correct me if I'm wrong that if The assault weapons ban is struck down 50 BMG would be available? Are there any other restrictions to 50 BMG besides the assault weapon ban?

There is no ban on 50BMG ammo.
There is no ban on 50BMG handguns.
There is no ban on 50BMG firearms.

The ban is only on 50BMG rifles.
If that portion of the AW laws is struck down as well as the associated codes for sales, possession, transport etc... then it would be fine to buy one.

[aBrowningfan]

snip...

There is no ban on 50BMG ammo.
There is no ban on 50BMG handguns.
There is no ban on 50BMG firearms.

The ban is only on 50BMG rifles.
If that portion of the AW laws is struck down as well as the associated codes for sales, possession, transport etc... then it would be fine to buy one.

PC Section 12278:
Subsection (b)(1) - (4) sure sound like the dimensions of a .50 BMG cartridge.

Further, Barrett introduced the .416 Barrett cartridge ( https://barrett.net/products/accesso...on/416barrett/ ) in response to CA PC 12278. It would seem that Barrett believes PC 12278 is targeted at the .50 BMG cartridge.

[OCArmory]

PC Section 12278:

Subsection (b)(1) - (4) sure sound like the dimensions of a .50 BMG cartridge.

Further, Barrett introduced the .416 Barrett cartridge ( https://barrett.net/products/accesso...on/416barrett/ ) in response to CA PC 12278. It would seem that Barrett believes PC 12278 is targeted at the .50 BMG cartridge.

They are using the dimensions to define what a 50 BMG rifle is. The cartridge is not banned just a rifle chambered in 50BMG meeting those dimensions.

[aBrowningfan]

They are using the dimensions to define what a 50 BMG rifle is. The cartridge is not banned just a rifle chambered in 50BMG meeting those dimensions.

Fair enough. However, the original question posed by Mr.patriot1776 that I was responding to was (paraphrasing) if the AWB PC sections are ruled to be unconstitutional, would there be any other PC restrictions. I think PC 12278 is a separate restriction that would have to be ruled unconstitutional in order for non-exempt persons to be able to own a rifle capable of firing the .50 BMG cartridge.

[timdps]

T

There is no ban on 50BMG ammo.
There is no ban on 50BMG handguns.
There is no ban on 50BMG firearms.

The ban is only on 50BMG rifles.

This ^. Semi-auto M2HB in .50BMG is perfectly legal in CA because it is not a rifle.

T

[pratchett]

Just remember, before you pull off those bullet buttons: there is a thing called "prosecution as punishment." They can know from the beginning they won't win, and still charge you anyway to make a point. And after a year in jail awaiting trial because excessive bail is a legal fiction... the entire time surrounded by violent convicted felons because they've dumped them from prisons into jails... you've lost your job, career, and pension... you've hired attorneys by maxing out your credit cards, taking out personal loans, emptying your savings and retirement accounts, taken out a second mortgage, and then going bankrupt and losing your home and your car...

Then, moments before you go to trial, they drop the case and open the jail door and say "Meh. Never mind. We were wrong." And there isn't one thing in the world you can ever do about it.

So, the advice in this thread is likely absolutely right. And being right in the face of state agents with absolute power and zero legal accountability isn't a game I'm going to play.

[ar15barrels]

PC Section 12278:

Subsection (b)(1) - (4) sure sound like the dimensions of a .50 BMG cartridge.

Further, Barrett introduced the .416 Barrett cartridge ( https://barrett.net/products/accesso...on/416barrett/ ) in response to CA PC 12278. It would seem that Barrett believes PC 12278 is targeted at the .50 BMG cartridge.

Like I already stated, 50BMG RIFLES are banned.
Ammo is not.
Firearms are not.
Handguns are not.

They created the 416 so they could sell RIFLES it in CA of the same design as a 50BMG which do NOT ACCEPT 50BMG cartridges.

You can buy 50BMG ammo in CA.
My local range has it on the shelf for sale.

[Uncivil Engineer]

This ^. Semi-auto M2HB in .50BMG is perfectly legal in CA because it is not a rifle.



T

Wait, so a 50bmg bolt action pistol is California legal. Not a rifle and roster exempt as bolt action? What FFL will ship a Barrett Model 99 with a "brace" to California?

[ar15barrels]

Wait, so a 50bmg bolt action pistol is California legal.
Not a rifle and roster exempt as bolt action?

Yes.
Single shot 50BMG pistols would also be legal.
Semi-auto crew served 50bmg firearms are also legal as long as they do not have a stock for firing from the shoulder.

[morthrane]

Wait, so a 50bmg bolt action pistol is California legal. Not a rifle and roster exempt as bolt action? What FFL will ship a Barrett Model 99 with a "brace" to California?

That's a rifle, and AFAIK its a grey area in CA to turn a rifle into an Other. And until the CADOJ finally allows the transfer of Other firearms instead of just Rifles and Shotguns, ain't happening...

[Mr.patriot1776]

Just remember, before you pull off those bullet buttons: there is a thing called "prosecution as punishment." They can know from the beginning they won't win, and still charge you anyway to make a point. And after a year in jail awaiting trial because excessive bail is a legal fiction... the entire time surrounded by violent convicted felons because they've dumped them from prisons into jails... you've lost your job, career, and pension... you've hired attorneys by maxing out your credit cards, taking out personal loans, emptying your savings and retirement accounts, taken out a second mortgage, and then going bankrupt and losing your home and your car...

Then, moments before you go to trial, they drop the case and open the jail door and say "Meh. Never mind. We were wrong." And there isn't one thing in the world you can ever do about it.

So, the advice in this thread is likely absolutely right. And being right in the face of state agents with absolute power and zero legal accountability isn't a game I'm going to play.

Uh! Wrongful arrest and vindictive prosecution are also defenses and reasons to sue.

[Mr.patriot1776]

Like I already stated, 50BMG RIFLES are banned.
Ammo is not.
Firearms are not.
Handguns are not.

They created the 416 so they could sell RIFLES it in CA of the same design as a 50BMG which do NOT ACCEPT 50BMG cartridges.

You can buy 50BMG ammo in CA.
My local range has it on the shelf for sale.

So 416 was not created just for California. Because of the year of design a lot of people get this confused. In 2005 It was designed in response to a request for a medium/heavy rifle cartridge combination that was issued from Naval Surface Warfare Center Crane Division in late 2004. It was designed to shoot farther than 50 BMG. However, it was not designed for us in California.
The 50 DTC Was designed in Europe to get around 50 caliber. BMG ban out there and also fits for our same ban here.

[Mr.patriot1776]

There is no law against converting single actions to double actions.
There is a specific law against converting a semi-automatic designed pistol to a non-semi-auto for transfer purposes and then converting back to a semi-auto.



The CA7 is clearly a semi-auto pistol that has been converted to a non-semi-auto in order to get added to the roster with only the drop tests.
In order to justify the CA7 NOT being of a semi-auto design, you would have to prove that the CA7's receiver design is NOT primarily used to build semi-autos.



There is no ban on 50BMG ammo.
There is no ban on 50BMG handguns.
There is no ban on 50BMG firearms.

The ban is only on 50BMG rifles.
If that portion of the AW laws is struck down as well as the associated codes for sales, possession, transport etc... then it would be fine to buy one.

Barrels I have for sure heard both sides of the argument I personally Happen to agree, Jay and Franklin Armory. The gun is sold as a bolt-action repeater. Not a single action not a single shot. For example single shot guns have a mag block or bullet sled and have gas system. The ca7 has a detachable magazine. It's on the roster and has been drop tested. As far as I know where no one has been prosecuted and Franklin has further backed up the ca7 by stating that their attorney would be happy to take on these cases. (I guessing not for free). It seems to be the dojs opinion that if you made the gun yourself and then made it semi auto or detachable mags. You would be required to follow all of the roster requirements. Sse1.0 and sse2.0. But I dont think this is the right forum for the ca7 discussion. You and I could go back and forth on this all day. You and I and and hole lot of other folks dont 100% agree on this and that's ok. This is America and we dont have to agree. We are allowed to have opinions and Express them. If you want let's get on the ca7 forum and type till we are blue in the face? Btw I enjoy reading your posts and your opinions.


I don't mean to be insulting or rude in any way, but I have worked as an activist in other industries (nunya). As 2A activists it's our duty to take it right up to the legal limit not to cry about possible prosecution! Prosecution is not a punishment but an opportunity to set precedent not a reason to cower away. It would be sad if the doj wins just by making us afraid. Governments derive their power from the consent of the governed not from the fear.
our forefathers Committed treason against the crown to achieve the rights we have. Not suggesting anyone does that. Just that's its important to remember.

I'm stoked at the possibility of 50bmg rifles...

[vesper11111]

Must revive this thread. Is there any news about this?

[p7m8jg]

No new news. Only in our dreams.