Rhode v. Becerra (Challenge to CA Ammo Sales) - ORAL ARGS at 9th 11-9-2020

[Gasman]

I was able to order using the website about a minute after they (True Shot) sent out the email notice....But again NO SIN TAX CHARGED.

Good for you - they must have changed their policy after you ordered.

[scottmac2000]

I just ordered from TargetSportUSA. They said they can ship anywhere in California except Los Angeles.

[The Gleam]

I just ordered from TargetSportUSA. They said they can ship anywhere in California except Los Angeles.

Except... I've noticed that if you use one of the 'burb' names, such as Encino or Northridge - if you can - the order still goes through regardless of zip-code.

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[The Gleam]

I was able to order using the website about a minute after they (True Shot) sent out the email notice. At that moment, they still had not yet taken down the pages related to California, even though their email banner said they would ship. I proceeded anyways, and as expected there was NO additional tax beyond normal sales tax. Because the ammunition ordered was on a “Flash Sale, with FREE shipping”, that’s all there was. It was a bit slow, so I figure it was crashing. But again NO SIN TAX CHARGED.

Good for you - they must have changed their policy after you ordered.

They shouldn't have been charging the 11% anyway - that's only on CA domiciled dealers located within CA at point of sale.

An out of state dealer shipping to CA still needs to charge sales tax due to 'use' tax nonsense and Federal decision and changes in perspective about online sales several years ago for any sort of goods (like you see with most all internet sites now, even if not headquartered in the buyer's state that charges sales tax), but the 11% doesn't apply to them unless they have a physical location here or were incorporated here.

That 11% tax is on the CA dealer, not the consumer - dealers were just passing that on to consumers. It should never have been a line item like another sales tax on a consumer's receipt no different than you don't see the 11% Federal tax on your receipt ( but BOTH are unconstitutional anyway! ).

That's just the law and limited to CA. Nor would True Shot be regulated/listed and audited to file that State only excise tax on CA dealers by CA to pay that to the state of CA. They would be unfairly pocketing that 11%.

For that matter, if they did that, under the former ship-to FFL ammo requirement to perform the background check, the local receiving dealer would STILL charge the 11%, but not the sales tax ironically, if the sales tax was already paid to True Shot.

And there is no way in the law for CA to enforce that on an out of state vendor to collect regardless of CA's 'long arm of the law' reach like with other CA rules (ban on sales of high capacity magazines to CA for example) because it's no longer going through a local dealer, which would have charged it at point of sale after receiving it like is required with a firearm (and formerly, ammo).

I bought a good amount of obscure cartridges from Midway last night - no 11% nonsense, order went through, confirmed, and on its way - free shipping. Some Winchester rifle ammo I bought also had a $5.00 rebate per box.

I would not buy anything from an out of state located vendor charging the 11% - that would just be a scam.

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[The Gleam]

One other thing - it's a terrible time for Calguns to be afflicted with a high frequency of 504's the past 18 hours.

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[Libertyvirgins]

One other thing - it's a terrible time for Calguns to be afflicted with a high frequency of 504's the past 18 hours.

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Right! I just found caguns.net trying to figure out why this site isn’t working.
my new favorite vendor dozermunitions is shipping!

[thethreegs]

Except... I've noticed that if you use one of the 'burb' names, such as Encino or Northridge - if you can - the order still goes through regardless of zip-code.

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I know this will get confused by many retailers, but as I understood it - the law is technically exempt for CCW holders [Source: 55.11.g.3. any person who has been issued a permit to carry a concealed weapon under the authority of Section 12050 of the Penal Code of the State of California]

Also, I'm not sure it actually applies to retailers from out of state - but I assume many will operate out of an abundance of caution. Wonder if there will be a way to submit a photo of your CCW to show you are indeed exempt from this absurd city ordinance.

[Libertyvirgins]

I'm curious if SG Ammo will start shipping to CA. They wouldn't even ship to an FFL before this latest ruling.

They told me that they wouldn’t start shipping till September if nothing changes.

[Capybara]

They told me that they wouldn’t start shipping till September if nothing changes.

Really hoping so, I have bought literally hundreds of thousands of rounds from them before they dumped Commifornia. I was rummaging around in my stash the other day and came across a few crates of zero recoil Czech 7.62x54r Mosin Training Ammo with wooden projectiles
that I bought from them back in the day. They always get a hold of unusual and interesting kinds of ammo, especially milsurp.

I suspect this will last about a week so stock up boys! We know that Bonta and Gav Boy will not let this stand.

[DolphinFan]

MidwayUSA Order shipped

[1bulletBarney]

Ordered 1000 rounds of S&B 115 grn 9mm from Midway... just because I can. $269.36 shipped.

FGN...

[NewbieDoo]

I have created a scorecard for ammunition vendors. Support businesses that support us!

Botach: F- | Took customer money, fulfilled nothing, and canceled everything
Optics Planet: F- | Took customer money, fulfilled nothing, and canceled everything
SGAmmo: F | Never accepted orders

Buds Gun Shop: D | Failed to process and ship the vast majority, and canceled all unfulfilled orders
MidwayUSA: C | Accepted a limited window of orders

Brownells: B | Canceled unfulfilled orders
Gman Sport: B |
GunMagWarehouse: B |
Natchez: B |

AE Ammo: A |
Bereli: A |
Buffalo Bore: A |
Flip Ammo: A |
Maryland Munitions: A |
MiWall Corp: A |
Outdoor Limited: A |
Palmetto State Armory: A |
Southern Defense: A |
Southern Munitions: A |
Velocity Ammunition Sales: A |
Vizards: A |

KIR Ammo: A+ |
Sportsman Guide: A+ |
TargetSportsUSA: A+ |
TrueShot: A+ |

Be sure to specifically thank Able Ammo, Ammunition Depot, and Sam's Shooter Emporium for serving as plaintiffs in Rhode v. Bonta! All three deserve special credit.

I have removed verbose descriptions in favor of more concise scoring that aggregates the number of reported successful fulfilled orders and other relevant customer service metrics.

Resurfacing this post, for those interested.

[zilla8]

I just ordered from TargetSportUSA. They said they can ship anywhere in California except Los Angeles.

I would like to get a definite answer on this regarding shipping to city of Los Angeles specifically. When I put items in my cart at several major places like Midway and get to shipping there is no restriction for Los Angeles.

[NewbieDoo]

Also, I'm not sure it actually applies to retailers from out of state - but I assume many will operate out of an abundance of caution.

This. I'm not an FFL, but I assume that as a part of licensure, they have to make some certification/declaration/attestation that they will comply with all firearms-related laws to the best of their ability. Protecting the license will be their primary objective, as that is their livelihood. Not worth it for a nationwide firearm and ammo retailer to jeopardize their ability to operate just to stick it to LA's ridiculous dumb restriction.

That said, plenty do. I received shipments from several retailers during this first go round (February of last year) and a couple of shipped since yesterday, and I didn't need proof of my CCW.

[thethreegs]

N/A