Are Gold and Silver gonna keep going down?

[keenkeen]

We're looking at the best manipulation the world has ever seen. Man can you even imagine them taking away the C-Note?

No, I can't "even imagine"...mainly because its not going to happen.

[Yugo]

No, I can't "even imagine"...mainly because its not going to happen.

I know, Im just saying what if...

[OutlawStar]

Has anyone bought from Krett's Koin Kastle in Oxnard? Or know of a good silver bullion retailer in Ventura city/county?

I've been trying to read and find decent guides for silver buying, but most of them are well disguised advertisements to buy from the author. I'd like to walk into a store and walk out with silver bars. I'd consider an online place if there is some advantage, but as near as I can tell, the only advantage may be sales tax avoidance if I buy under $1500 of silver at a time. I'm comfortable buying $1500+ in one go from a local place to avoid the tax.

help!

[laurelpark]

I've never bought from them, and I've found the best deals overall to be from the big online stores. Even better if you can find deals from the big stores that also sell on eBay. Lots of times you can get free shipping, really good prices (lower than the lowest price listed on the stores actual online site), and if you use a cash back credit card, you get a 2% discount (which is typically the price above spot). I made a hobby of scouring eBay for deals last year, and found some really good ones.

[OutlawStar]

Is there a list of good and trusted online retailers then? Seems like just about half the online places are either slow to send, or send something significantly different than what was expected.

I was thinking JMBullion; for the quantity that I am willing to buy, it would be free shipping, decent variety of similar products, and about ~$1.50/oz over silver asking price for a single ounce. As I understand, you'll never get exactly "ask" or spot price on silver from a retailer as they are making their profit also. $1.50 doesn't seem incredulous or anything. I'm willing to learn the easy way if you guys have some wisdom for a first time silver buyer.

[laurelpark]

Is there a list of good and trusted online retailers then? Seems like just about half the online places are either slow to send, or send something significantly different than what was expected.

I was thinking JMBullion; for the quantity that I am willing to buy, it would be free shipping, decent variety of similar products, and about ~$1.50/oz over silver asking price for a single ounce. As I understand, you'll never get exactly "ask" or spot price on silver from a retailer as they are making their profit also. $1.50 doesn't seem incredulous or anything. I'm willing to learn the easy way if you guys have some wisdom for a first time silver buyer.

The best place that I've done business with is Apmex (www.apmex.com). They are super fast, they send top quality goods, and if you have any problems at all with what you got, they'll make it right. I also like Bay Precious Metals - but I think they only have an eBay store at this point. JMBullion is also good - never had a problem with them.

I wouldn't pay more than $0.75 over spot for silver for generic bullion. When you go to sell it, you'll probably get $0.75 under spot, so that's a pretty big spread. The best deals are on bars made by reputable refineries (Johnson Mathey, Royal Canadian Mint, Asahi), and I like to get them in 100 oz. increments because those are generally a very low premium over spot.

The "smarter" buy is to get bullion coins because they tend to hold value a lot better. They're more expensive up front, but you get much more for them when you go to sell. American Eagles or Canadian Maples are my favorites. Every once in a while you find them for really good deals - I got a lot of them at $0.89 over spot on special.

EDIT: Just did a quick search on deals, and this isn't too bad when you consider free shipping and the cash back from a credit card:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SPECIAL-PRICE-1-oz-Silver-Round-Republic-Metals-Corporation-Lot-Tube-20-/121912236803

[OutlawStar]

Yeah, most of the coin shops and pawn places said to buy coins or at least rounds because they would hold value better and have an additional premium on top. But any change in value would be directly correlated to the price of silver. Maybe I'm just not understanding the fundamentals of it; its silver bar price, plus about $2 for an American eagle coin. Can I assume that $2 premium will also increase over time? Or does it simply keep the price above spot/ask price in the future when I go to sell them?

The $1.50 figure over spot was for a debit/credit purchase of 1oz bars, that over-spot price seems to drop a fair amount when buying 10/100oz bars.

[laurelpark]

Yeah, most of the coin shops and pawn places said to buy coins or at least rounds because they would hold value better and have an additional premium on top. But any change in value would be directly correlated to the price of silver. Maybe I'm just not understanding the fundamentals of it; its silver bar price, plus about $2 for an American eagle coin. Can I assume that $2 premium will also increase over time? Or does it simply keep the price above spot/ask price in the future when I go to sell them?

The $1.50 figure over spot was for a debit/credit purchase of 1oz bars, that over-spot price seems to drop a fair amount when buying 10/100oz bars.

The coins can be really good investments - the same ones I bought for $0.89 over spot on sale were going for close to $4 over spot during the panic buying last year. So, in addition to their intrinsic value, they carry a "collector" value. They are also more stable - when silver prices go down, the premium for the Eagles or Maples go up just about the same amount.

At that same time as the "panic" last year, generic silver was still going for what it always had. It tracks the market in lock step, and the stuff isn't desirable enough to the shops that will buy it back.

The next best bet after coins are rounds from reputable mints. The ones I linked above are a good deal, and at $0.85 over spot (credit card price, free shipping), they're a good bet. I have some Republic Metals Corp. rounds, and while they aren't as pretty as some of the other rounds out there (I like the reproduced Morgans for some reason), they're perfectly good for an investment. If you can get them in sealed containers, all the better - that keeps them nice and shiny.

[Not a Cook]

Yeah, most of the coin shops and pawn places said to buy coins or at least rounds because they would hold value better and have an additional premium on top. But any change in value would be directly correlated to the price of silver. Maybe I'm just not understanding the fundamentals of it; its silver bar price, plus about $2 for an American eagle coin. Can I assume that $2 premium will also increase over time? Or does it simply keep the price above spot/ask price in the future when I go to sell them?

The $1.50 figure over spot was for a debit/credit purchase of 1oz bars, that over-spot price seems to drop a fair amount when buying 10/100oz bars.

OutlawStar - I'm far from an expert, but the decision regarding whether to buy bars, generic rounds, bullion coins, or numismatic coins is largely dependent on WHY you're buying. That said, why are you buying?

As an investment? If for investment purposes, how long do you desire to hold? As a "prep"? Just because you like shiny things?

Your answer to the above questions will greatly influence what form you choose to purchase PMs. For instance, if you're buying as a "prep", it would seem to be much better to buy junk silver (aka "Constitutional silver", really just pre-'65 dimes, quarters, half-dollars) or coins instead of 1,000 oz COMEX bars due to their divisibility and later ease of sale. There are only ever so many buyers for 1,000 oz. bars (whether SHTF or just regular times); there are a lot more buyers for coins than for bars. There are pluses and minuses to each form; it's really a question of what suits your purposes best.

Regardless, if you haven't already I'd suggest you thoroughly review the information on this page (https://www.golddealer.com/investmen...-transactions/) regarding exactly what constitutes a "reportable transaction". You might also want to check out that particular PM dealer... they're relatively close to you, offer prices lower than most dealers (even online dealers) and appear to have an excellent reputation.

[OutlawStar]

As an investment? If for investment purposes, how long do you desire to hold? As a "prep"? Just because you like shiny things?

Those are some good questions i've been asking myself. I think primarily it would be for investment, shiny, and just a handful for "prep".

I'm not looking to flip precious metals, nor am I even expecting to sell them within 15 years unless I'm hitting unexpected financial hardship, or the price skyrockets. Its definitely a long-term item in my 'portfolio" that I would like to gradually and steadily increase in value, something better than my savings account and more liquid than my retirement accounts.

That being said, I don't feel confident buying a 1000oz or even 100oz bars because theres so few people willing to buy in those quantities. I recognize its a lot easier to sell 1, 5, and sometimes 10oz bars at a time to individuals if necessary. Its why i'm leaning toward 5 and 10oz bars as long-term, with a "few" 1oz bars and silver eagles if I need to sell or barter quickly; I like the idea of a quickly liquid asset/investment. From what I'm gathering from you two is the silver eagles are liquid and are semi-protected in market fluctuations, but bars seem to be pretty good for long-term as silver prices rise with inflation or market changes.

Also, shiny! I like the idea of 100 little shiny bars in my possession. I also like the idea of 10 larger, or even one giant but still shiny bar.

I'll take a read at the link you posted. I hadn't really thought about taxes other than sales tax, and buying out of state to avoid that in-state sales tax.

[laurelpark]

Cap gains taxes are always a concern - and the government wants everyone to report them on their returns. The same goes for a car that you bought in the '60s and it turned out to be a classic - and you sell for a hundred times more than you paid for it... You're supposed to report that just the same as you're supposed to report cap gains on metals.

As far as your objectives go, it "sounds" like the best strategy is to try and get the lowest premium over spot as possible - and buy stuff that is easy to turn over. I used to also like "junk silver", in fact it was my favorite - but these days the cost over spot, and the price you get to sell back, just doesn't make sense to me. The only time pre-1964 coins are a home run is when you find them in circulation.

Also, don't totally shy away from 100 oz. bars. The major brands are just as easy to sell as smaller denomination generics. Johnson Matthey, for example, is known worldwide, as are RCM bars. Most of the shops that buy will show you a list of buy prices for various "stocked" bars - and the JM or RCM bars typically get a premium over the no-name stuff because they are sought out by customers. Same goes for individual buyers - plenty of people will buy the well known names without question.

It's still not a bad time to buy silver. It's under-performed gold during the last year, and that will likely correct itself soon. Premiums are also down because a lot of dealers bought silver at $13-14/oz. and now it's over $15/oz. They see their profit at today's prices, and with the volatility, there will likely be some sales going on as they try to lock in those profits.

[sixoclockhold]

Outlaw if Silver is going to be your game, have fun at it. Purchase things you enjoy owning as you may be stuck with it for a long long time.

There is deals but no free lunch in PM's. The higher the price goes the more fakes in the market place. The larger the coin or bar the easier and more profitable it is to fake. Beautiful mint country coins from the current year are down on the list for fakes. Reputable dealers are a must if you're planning on sinking any big fiat into this moon shot.

Get yourself one of those silver slides if you are going to buy random stuff.

Timing is a lot. If you try to sell anything when everyone is dumping, you're not even going to get spot.

If I was going to invest $9k in Silver I would go to a reputable dealer and buy a monster box of current year 1 oz. beauties and forget about it, don't cut the straps. Buy a 20 stack to play with and fondle.

A couple dimes in price either way isn't going to make a hill a beans if you're in the game and a Winner !

Good luck

[sixoclockhold]

$1269 high today?

Are you kidding me?

Fuky Guru has lead you to the promised land !

[laurelpark]

Metals are doing good things today - all the analysts seem to be changing their tune on them. There's definitely a pile-on situation going on...

One interesting thing that I learned is that the Canadian government only has a couple dozen ounces of gold left in their reserve. Compared to the hundreds of tons in other major government reserves, that's really rather weird. Their justification for the draw-down is that gold wasn't an asset that was returning anything, so they moved their money to bonds and currencies. I am guessing that they'll have an "oh crap" moment and get back into the physical market now.

[ohsmily]

$1269 high today?

Are you kidding me?

Fuky Guru has lead you to the promised land !

What nonsense are you going on about? Stop embarrassing yourself. Also, it is "led", ****y gooroo.