BODY ARMOR: The Good, The Bad, and the Ugly

[timberwoofers]

You measure the length between one nipple to the other. That determines what size SAPI standard plate you need.

In addition to that, there are different "cuts", ie "shooter's cut", "swimmer's cut" etc. These have non-standard notches cut in the plate, which improve mobility but reduce protection. Shooter's cut is very popular, and allows a more comfortable arm position for shouldering rifles and forming a proper "triangle" with your arms for handguns. You probably should stay away from Swimmer's cut, you're not a Navy SEAL and the protection tradeoff starts to become pretty large.

Cool, thanks for this info.

But hey, you don't know how I operate.

[NorCalRefuge]

Slickster $155
Turnover $30
Hesco Armor BI 4400 $350 (15 pounds)
----------------------------------------------
$535

That would work... but feel like you were wearing steel.

Without the drawbacks to steel, like catching a chunk of lead in your face (spalling). Even with anti-spall coatings, you can find plenty of tests/videos online showing what happens when a bullet hits a flat steel plate. Hint, it has to go somewhere.

Ceramics catch the projectile... both spreading out the impact's impulse (so it transfers less energy at once into your chest), and slowing it down to a stop where it's captured in the plate. Steel just tries to shatter the bullet or deflect it somewhere else. In either case, that somewhere else could be your arm, neck, face, or your buddy standing next to you... if the thin anti-spall coating doesn't do it's job 100% or the bullet hits your steel plate at an angle just right to where it doesn't explode.

Note, this is indeed one of Hesco's heavier plates - it's their "budget" line. They have options down to 3lbs per plate, but you'll pay a very pretty penny for them.

Like I said, more budget oriented plates will sacrifice weight and thickness to save money. It all depends on your budget.

[NorCalRefuge]

This: https://sierratac.com/hesco-400-seri...4400-see-4401/

What's the difference between the medium and large cut?

Thanks

You measure the length between one nipple to the other. That determines what size SAPI standard plate you need.

In addition to that, there are different "cuts", ie "shooter's cut", "swimmer's cut" etc. These have non-standard notches cut in the plate, which improve mobility but reduce protection. Shooter's cut is very popular, and allows a more comfortable arm position for shouldering rifles and forming a proper "triangle" with your arms for handguns. You probably should stay away from Swimmer's cut, you're not a Navy SEAL and the protection tradeoff starts to become pretty large.

[timberwoofers]

Slickster $155
Turnover $30
Hesco Armor BI 4400 $350 (15 pounds)
----------------------------------------------
$535

That would work... but feel like you were wearing steel.

8lbs ea, seems like a lot vs 5-6lbs ea. But I know nothing that's why I'm asking.

[timberwoofers]

Hesco 4400. Level 4, covered ceramic plates. Good entry level plates that sacrifice weight and thickness vs. more expensive ones. Hesco is "the" brand - very high quality stuff.

Then get a carrier of your choice, Crye and more make excellent ones.

This: https://sierratac.com/hesco-400-seri...4400-see-4401/

What's the difference between the medium and large cut?

Thanks

[crufflers]

Slickster $155
Turnover $30
Hesco Armor BI 4400 $350 (15 pounds)
----------------------------------------------
$535

That would work... but feel like you were wearing steel.

[NorCalRefuge]

Ok, do you have a recommendation?

Hesco 4400. Level 4, covered ceramic plates. Good entry level plates that sacrifice weight and thickness vs. more expensive ones. Hesco is "the" brand - very high quality stuff.

Then get a carrier of your choice, Crye and more make excellent ones.

[timberwoofers]

Unfortunately there's a lot of misinformation there. Ceramic plates can be any NIJ rating level, and most can stop multiple rounds before allowing localized penetration (as-is sniper tac driving bullets into the exact same spot). They do not "turn to dust", even after being shot.

There's a reason our LEO and MIL guys wear ceramic plates... and those guys actually have a real chance of taking multiple rounds during an operation. I can also assure you a SEAL puts his ceramic plates through a lot more abuse during 1 day in the field than you probably will during your entire lifetime.

Ok, do you have a recommendation?

[NorCalRefuge]

Good info, I was not aware about the ceramic plates as far as how many rounds it can take before it becomes dust.

Unfortunately there's a lot of misinformation there. Ceramic plates can be any NIJ rating level, and most can stop multiple rounds before allowing localized penetration (as-is sniper tac driving bullets into the exact same spot). They do not "turn to dust", even after being shot.

There's a reason our LEO and MIL guys wear ceramic plates... and those guys actually have a real chance of taking multiple rounds during an operation. I can also assure you a SEAL puts his ceramic plates through a lot more abuse during 1 day in the field than you probably will during your entire lifetime.

[NorCalRefuge]

I'm a big fan of the Banshee plate carrier.

Biggest thing I like about it is tons of integrated pockets and especially mag pouches around the cummerbund - this reduces the number of pouches you have to buy and hang off of it, which keeps you lighter and slimmer.

I am a steel guy, because unless you have spare plates and carriers on hand and plan on supply chains staying up, once ceramic is hit ONCE, the whole plate's integrity is compromised. So, I believe III+ is what you want. It will stop most .308 rounds.

I've seen most steel plates that are worth anything, take upwards of 100 5.56 hits and keep on ticking. Not that you WANT to run plates that have been shot even once, but again; steel maintains its integrity way, WAY better than Ceramic.

Maybe the best ceramic could stop ~6 rounds before it largely turns to dust?

And no you mouth breathers; I'm not envisioning getting shot 50 times in one gun fight; I'm thinking of the long-term; let's say we have full bore SHTF, riots and general civil unrest for 6 months; your ceramic plates will likely be useless at the end of 6 mo. (if not far sooner) vs. steel should keep on protecting you just fine.

Get AR650 or higher; do not go for AR500 - that is old tech & far eclipsed by the newer AR600+ / 1000 steels.

Ceramic is Level IV and good up to .30-06 AP, so it should stop most .308 rounds too.

The brands I like best are Spartan Armor, CATI Armor, SteelOps.

Good luck.

Sounds like a wonderful way to have your neck slit open from all that spalling. Good news, you won't die from being shot! But you'll bleed out soon after...

Also sounds like a wonderful way to develop some manly calves though... all that weight!

In all seriousness though - ceramic is fine. It can take multiple hits without issue - and if you're someplace where you're realistically taking 100 rounds to the chest, you shouldn't be there anyway... John Wick...

There's no reason ceramic plates wouldn't hold up through 6+ months of civil unrest... unless you're getting shot constantly. In which case, again... why are you there?

[crufflers]

I thought Botach is months out on shipping?

I've never waited very long for them to ship any plates. Usually they are in-stock and they take about a week to ship and then BLAM there they are. YMMV. Never hear of anyone months out unless it is AR500 or some place cutting and coating steel. If you are planning on a gun fight next week don't push your luck. Yeah ceramic and UHMWPE do not take 50 multihits or maybe none in the same hole... so buy two or three sets.

Walking around with 20 pounds vs a 10 pound carrier is a huge difference.

You should not have any ONE piece of equipment cause it is the best at longevity IMHO. Get more than one.

I'm fine with 7 sets, but maybe that's not enough. Who knows.

[crufflers]

I'm a big fan of the Banshee plate carrier.

Biggest thing I like about it is tons of integrated pockets and especially mag pouches around the cummerbund - this reduces the number of pouches you have to buy and hang off of it, which keeps you lighter and slimmer.

The Slickster comes with a cummerbund that holds EIGHT mags or TQ's or fruit pies or whatever.

I have the Turnover and the clip on flip down (onto cummerbund) triple mag carrier on slicksters with Level IV composite... most level IV that is not the same weight as steel is composite. CERAMIC and UHMWPE.

Both triple mag pouches work fine. one is $30 and one is $60 so...

[timberwoofers]

I'm a big fan of the Banshee plate carrier.

Biggest thing I like about it is tons of integrated pockets and especially mag pouches around the cummerbund - this reduces the number of pouches you have to buy and hang off of it, which keeps you lighter and slimmer.

I am a steel guy, because unless you have spare plates and carriers on hand and plan on supply chains staying up, once ceramic is hit ONCE, the whole plate's integrity is compromised. So, I believe III+ is what you want. It will stop most .308 rounds.

I've seen most steel plates that are worth anything, take upwards of 100 5.56 hits and keep on ticking. Not that you WANT to run plates that have been shot even once, but again; steel maintains its integrity way, WAY better than Ceramic.

Maybe the best ceramic could stop ~6 rounds before it largely turns to dust?

And no you mouth breathers; I'm not envisioning getting shot 50 times in one gun fight; I'm thinking of the long-term; let's say we have full bore SHTF, riots and general civil unrest for 6 months; your ceramic plates will likely be useless at the end of 6 mo. (if not far sooner) vs. steel should keep on protecting you just fine.

Get AR650 or higher; do not go for AR500 - that is old tech & far eclipsed by the newer AR600+ / 1000 steels.

Ceramic is Level IV and good up to .30-06 AP, so it should stop most .308 rounds too.

The brands I like best are Spartan Armor, CATI Armor, SteelOps.

Good luck.

Good info, I was not aware about the ceramic plates as far as how many rounds it can take before it becomes dust.

[timberwoofers]

I can give you a few suggestions for a budget option...

Slickster $155
Turnover triple 556 mag pouch $30

Botach Level IV plates $200 (11.375 pounds)
or
Botach Level III+ plates $260 (8.4 pounds)
or
Hesco L210 M855 plates $370 (10.8 pounds)

You want to stop .308 for that price I'd get the Level IV.

I thought Botach is months out on shipping?

[Tere_Hanges]

I am a steel guy, because unless you have spare plates and carriers on hand and plan on supply chains staying up, once ceramic is hit ONCE, the whole plate's integrity is compromised. So, I believe III+ is what you want. It will stop most .308 rounds.

I've seen most steel plates that are worth anything, take upwards of 100 5.56 hits and keep on ticking. Not that you WANT to run plates that have been shot even once, but again; steel maintains its integrity way, WAY better than Ceramic.

Maybe the best ceramic could stop ~6 rounds before it largely turns to dust?

And no you mouth breathers; I'm not envisioning getting shot 50 times in one gun fight; I'm thinking of the long-term; let's say we have full bore SHTF, riots and general civil unrest for 6 months; your ceramic plates will likely be useless at the end of 6 mo. (if not far sooner) vs. steel should keep on protecting you just fine.

Get AR650 or higher; do not go for AR500 - that is old tech & far eclipsed by the newer AR600+ / 1000 steels.

Ceramic is Level IV and good up to .30-06 AP, so it should stop most .308 rounds too.

The brands I like best are Spartan Armor, CATI Armor, SteelOps.

Good luck.

LMFAO!!!