BODY ARMOR: The Good, The Bad, and the Ugly

[Tere_Hanges]

So looking at Hesco multi curve plates, my understanding is their 'shooters cut' plate is a swimmers cut. Is this accurate??

Will a SAPI cut still provide a 'comfortable arm position for shouldering rifles and forming a proper triangle with your arms for handguns?"

Seems like some guys will get Hesco's shooters cut for front and SAPI for the rear. Thoughts?

thanks

I personally prefer swimmers/shooters cut for front and the standard/SAPI cut in the back. The swimmers cut definitely makes it way easier to shoulder a long gun and a little more comfortable to form a triangle but it really helps if your carrier is swimmer cut friendly too and not too wide at the top. Its really not a big deal with the standard/SAPI cut style in front either though.

[crufflers]

^ Wait until you see the latest steel video I made

Is it uploaded yet?

[timberwoofers]

You measure the length between one nipple to the other. That determines what size SAPI standard plate you need.

In addition to that, there are different "cuts", ie "shooter's cut", "swimmer's cut" etc. These have non-standard notches cut in the plate, which improve mobility but reduce protection. Shooter's cut is very popular, and allows a more comfortable arm position for shouldering rifles and forming a proper "triangle" with your arms for handguns. You probably should stay away from Swimmer's cut, you're not a Navy SEAL and the protection tradeoff starts to become pretty large.

So looking at Hesco multi curve plates, my understanding is their 'shooters cut' plate is a swimmers cut. Is this accurate??

Will a SAPI cut still provide a 'comfortable arm position for shouldering rifles and forming a proper triangle with your arms for handguns?"

Seems like some guys will get Hesco's shooters cut for front and SAPI for the rear. Thoughts?

thanks

[Neil McCauley]

some plates are better than no plates change my mind

[chrisdesoup]

5'5 guy here and about 170lb currently. Medium shirt etc.

Almost ordered the Hesco 4100 level 4s single curve at 10x12" but worried they may too big for me.

Thoughts? I dont have a carrier yet.

Naw, you'll be fine. If you have never worn plates before, it's going to be "different". Draw and stance will be off, little practice and you'll be fine with a 10x12.

[Psychbiker]

5'5 guy here and about 170lb currently. Medium shirt etc.

Almost ordered the Hesco 4100 level 4s single curve at 10x12" but worried they may too big for me.

Thoughts? I dont have a carrier yet.

[Wlee]

FYI anyone who is looking at the Botach armor, ordered a set of the lvl 4's as you can never have to many armor sets, order placed on 10/28, delivery is scheduled for tomorrow. Standard shipping selected with ups. Fastest Ive ever seen something leave their warehouse.

[Buffman]

^ Wait until you see the latest steel video I made

[crufflers]

Without the drawbacks to steel, like catching a chunk of lead in your face (spalling). Even with anti-spall coatings, you can find plenty of tests/videos online showing what happens when a bullet hits a flat steel plate. Hint, it has to go somewhere.

Probably the best reason to dump outdated steel other than the lighter weight and higher ratings that can be achieved by composites.

[crufflers]

For now, I'm sticking with steel and these for spall protection:

https://drmorgear.wordpress.com/products/spall-guards/

You can just keep replacing the spall guards at 94 a pop. But how do you know when the steel plate will simply allow rounds to punch right through a weakened area? just curious.

The spall guard also costs about what some level IV plates cost. I have some Main Gun and Cati Armor steel sets with aramid fiber layered inserts and build up coatings myself.

[DrjonesUSA]

Without the drawbacks to steel, like catching a chunk of lead in your face (spalling). Even with anti-spall coatings, you can find plenty of tests/videos online showing what happens when a bullet hits a flat steel plate. Hint, it has to go somewhere.

Ceramics catch the projectile... both spreading out the impact's impulse (so it transfers less energy at once into your chest), and slowing it down to a stop where it's captured in the plate. Steel just tries to shatter the bullet or deflect it somewhere else. In either case, that somewhere else could be your arm, neck, face, or your buddy standing next to you... if the thin anti-spall coating doesn't do it's job 100% or the bullet hits your steel plate at an angle just right to where it doesn't explode.

Note, this is indeed one of Hesco's heavier plates - it's their "budget" line. They have options down to 3lbs per plate, but you'll pay a very pretty penny for them.

Like I said, more budget oriented plates will sacrifice weight and thickness to save money. It all depends on your budget.

Very true......as you said; with ceramics; the bullet has to go somewhere.... usually the plate pretty badly breaks apart in order to absorb the impact & do its job......hence why I feel better sticking with steel.

[DrjonesUSA]

Good info, I was not aware about the ceramic plates as far as how many rounds it can take before it becomes dust.

Don't quote me on that, and as others have pointed out; I'm sure ceramic can take a decent beating, but nowhere near steel.

Just search YouTube yourself; hundreds or thousands of videos of all sorts of steel taking upwards of 100 rounds of 5.56 (and other calibers) without developing too much deformation, let alone letting any rounds pass.

Ceramic, OTOH, I've seen disintegrate quite drastically with just a few rounds, depending of course on caliber, where it strikes the plate specifically, etc.

I'm far from an expert on this, but this is the conclusion I've arrived to after all my research.

For now, I'm sticking with steel and these for spall protection:

https://drmorgear.wordpress.com/products/spall-guards/

Mr. DRMOR posts here in this thread, if you scroll back like 40 pages or something.


.

[DrjonesUSA]

Sounds like a wonderful way to have your neck slit open from all that spalling. Good news, you won't die from being shot! But you'll bleed out soon after...

Also sounds like a wonderful way to develop some manly calves though... all that weight!

In all seriousness though - ceramic is fine. It can take multiple hits without issue - and if you're someplace where you're realistically taking 100 rounds to the chest, you shouldn't be there anyway... John Wick...

There's no reason ceramic plates wouldn't hold up through 6+ months of civil unrest... unless you're getting shot constantly. In which case, again... why are you there?

Yeah I'm still a little up in the air on it.....but for now, I have steel.
You also don't have to worry (within reason) about where you store it - trunk, hot closet, etc. - dropping it, falling on it, etc.

I realize ceramic plates are a far cry from kitchen dishes / that sort of ceramic, but still...... you have to be much more careful with ceramic armor vs. a chunk of steel.

As for spall; I'm covered!

https://drmorgear.wordpress.com/products/spall-guards/

[NorCalRefuge]

I might decide to pay more if it weighs less but same protection rating. I'd rather pay more and be mobile than save a few and feel like a slug.

NIJ ratings aren't tested for a bunch of things - manufacturers do their own testing mostly. For most NIJ ratings, they freeze the plate for some number of minutes, then heat the plate, dunk it in water, then have a fixed amount of time to fire a single shot at it without it failing.

The "+" levels are fake, as in they are not NIJ ratings. Doesn't mean they aren't good, just not NIJ certified. Such as Level III+, which manufactures will say is better than Level III but isn't quite up to Level IV.

This is why you must choose a quality plate manufacturer, which does the NIJ tests and more. A quality manufacturer will have information somewhere about their specific testing regiment, which you may or may not be comfortable with.

Level IV is mostly all you'll need for common rifle rounds, 556 and 762. Level III+ from a quality source would be sufficient too. Level III would be OK, but with the prevalence and easy access to M885 "Green Tip" 556 rounds, and other similar steel core "armor piercing" rounds, I'd think these days Level III is not really sufficient for a "SHTF" scenario, but that's just me - you should gauge your threat model accordingly.

Hesco 800 series plates (4800 for example) can be over $1k per plate. So, ya, gets pricy quickly if you're after the lightest-weight plate that provides good protection from realistic threats.

[timberwoofers]

Without the drawbacks to steel, like catching a chunk of lead in your face (spalling). Even with anti-spall coatings, you can find plenty of tests/videos online showing what happens when a bullet hits a flat steel plate. Hint, it has to go somewhere. Ceramics catch the projectile... both spreading out the impact's impulse (so it transfers less energy at once into your chest), and slowing it down to a stop. Steel just tries to shatter the bullet or deflect it somewhere else, which could be your arm, neck, face, or your buddy standing next to you... if the thin anti-spall coating doesn't do it's job 100%.

Note, this is indeed one of Hesco's heavier plates - it's their "budget" line. They have options down to 3lbs per plate, but you'll pay a very pretty penny for them.

Like I said, more budget oriented plates will sacrifice weight and thickness to save money. It all depends on your budget.

I might decide to pay more if it weighs less but same protection rating. I'd rather pay more and be mobile than save a few and feel like a slug.