BODY ARMOR: The Good, The Bad, and the Ugly

[Tere_Hanges]

I can give you a few suggestions for a budget option...

Slickster $155
Turnover triple 556 mag pouch $30

Botach Level IV plates $200 (11.375 pounds)
or
Botach Level III+ plates $260 (8.4 pounds)
or
Hesco L210 M855 plates $370 (10.8 pounds)

You want to stop .308 for that price I'd get the Level IV.

This, right here best value.

The botach level 4s are great, large strike face, realy lightweight for the protection level, multicurved for comfort. I personally think they are better than the L210. I have both plates.

The only thing the L210 has going for it, is it is incredibly thin, made in USA and Lucas Botkin really really likes them. But it feels like it weighs the same as the botach level 4, isnt rated for 7.62NATO/M80, and its almost twice as expensive. It feels super flat too, almost like no curve to it. Its a heavy plate for how thin it is. I dont really see what all the fuss is personally.

I also picked up one of the LAPG plates but the strike face is really small, theres at least an inch+ of foam around the edge. Frankly, its a joke. The Botachs are superior to the LAPG plates, IMHO.

You should also get kevlar IIIA plate backers. Easily found on Ebay for $120-$150 a pair

The slickster is one of the most comfortable and affordable PCs on market.

[DrjonesUSA]

I've read through some of this but a lot of it is greek to me. Could you guys steer me in the right direction and recommend a carrier that is comfortable that holds rifle mags and some armor plates that are good up to 308? Lighter the better. Preferably something that is in stock somewhere that won't be months out, I would spend around 500.

Will start own thread if off topic.

Thank you I appreciate it.

I'm a big fan of the Banshee plate carrier.

Biggest thing I like about it is tons of integrated pockets and especially mag pouches around the cummerbund - this reduces the number of pouches you have to buy and hang off of it, which keeps you lighter and slimmer.

I am a steel guy, because unless you have spare plates and carriers on hand and plan on supply chains staying up, once ceramic is hit ONCE, the whole plate's integrity is compromised. So, I believe III+ is what you want. It will stop most .308 rounds.

I've seen most steel plates that are worth anything, take upwards of 100 5.56 hits and keep on ticking. Not that you WANT to run plates that have been shot even once, but again; steel maintains its integrity way, WAY better than Ceramic.

Maybe the best ceramic could stop ~6 rounds before it largely turns to dust?

And no you mouth breathers; I'm not envisioning getting shot 50 times in one gun fight; I'm thinking of the long-term; let's say we have full bore SHTF, riots and general civil unrest for 6 months; your ceramic plates will likely be useless at the end of 6 mo. (if not far sooner) vs. steel should keep on protecting you just fine.

Get AR650 or higher; do not go for AR500 - that is old tech & far eclipsed by the newer AR600+ / 1000 steels.

Ceramic is Level IV and good up to .30-06 AP, so it should stop most .308 rounds too.

The brands I like best are Spartan Armor, CATI Armor, SteelOps.

Good luck.

[Tere_Hanges]

I am a steel guy, because unless you have spare plates and carriers on hand and plan on supply chains staying up, once ceramic is hit ONCE, the whole plate's integrity is compromised. So, I believe III+ is what you want. It will stop most .308 rounds.

I've seen most steel plates that are worth anything, take upwards of 100 5.56 hits and keep on ticking. Not that you WANT to run plates that have been shot even once, but again; steel maintains its integrity way, WAY better than Ceramic.

Maybe the best ceramic could stop ~6 rounds before it largely turns to dust?

And no you mouth breathers; I'm not envisioning getting shot 50 times in one gun fight; I'm thinking of the long-term; let's say we have full bore SHTF, riots and general civil unrest for 6 months; your ceramic plates will likely be useless at the end of 6 mo. (if not far sooner) vs. steel should keep on protecting you just fine.

Get AR650 or higher; do not go for AR500 - that is old tech & far eclipsed by the newer AR600+ / 1000 steels.

Ceramic is Level IV and good up to .30-06 AP, so it should stop most .308 rounds too.

The brands I like best are Spartan Armor, CATI Armor, SteelOps.

Good luck.

LMFAO!!!

[timberwoofers]

I can give you a few suggestions for a budget option...

Slickster $155
Turnover triple 556 mag pouch $30

Botach Level IV plates $200 (11.375 pounds)
or
Botach Level III+ plates $260 (8.4 pounds)
or
Hesco L210 M855 plates $370 (10.8 pounds)

You want to stop .308 for that price I'd get the Level IV.

I thought Botach is months out on shipping?

[timberwoofers]

I'm a big fan of the Banshee plate carrier.

Biggest thing I like about it is tons of integrated pockets and especially mag pouches around the cummerbund - this reduces the number of pouches you have to buy and hang off of it, which keeps you lighter and slimmer.

I am a steel guy, because unless you have spare plates and carriers on hand and plan on supply chains staying up, once ceramic is hit ONCE, the whole plate's integrity is compromised. So, I believe III+ is what you want. It will stop most .308 rounds.

I've seen most steel plates that are worth anything, take upwards of 100 5.56 hits and keep on ticking. Not that you WANT to run plates that have been shot even once, but again; steel maintains its integrity way, WAY better than Ceramic.

Maybe the best ceramic could stop ~6 rounds before it largely turns to dust?

And no you mouth breathers; I'm not envisioning getting shot 50 times in one gun fight; I'm thinking of the long-term; let's say we have full bore SHTF, riots and general civil unrest for 6 months; your ceramic plates will likely be useless at the end of 6 mo. (if not far sooner) vs. steel should keep on protecting you just fine.

Get AR650 or higher; do not go for AR500 - that is old tech & far eclipsed by the newer AR600+ / 1000 steels.

Ceramic is Level IV and good up to .30-06 AP, so it should stop most .308 rounds too.

The brands I like best are Spartan Armor, CATI Armor, SteelOps.

Good luck.

Good info, I was not aware about the ceramic plates as far as how many rounds it can take before it becomes dust.

[crufflers]

I'm a big fan of the Banshee plate carrier.

Biggest thing I like about it is tons of integrated pockets and especially mag pouches around the cummerbund - this reduces the number of pouches you have to buy and hang off of it, which keeps you lighter and slimmer.

The Slickster comes with a cummerbund that holds EIGHT mags or TQ's or fruit pies or whatever.

I have the Turnover and the clip on flip down (onto cummerbund) triple mag carrier on slicksters with Level IV composite... most level IV that is not the same weight as steel is composite. CERAMIC and UHMWPE.

Both triple mag pouches work fine. one is $30 and one is $60 so...

[crufflers]

I thought Botach is months out on shipping?

I've never waited very long for them to ship any plates. Usually they are in-stock and they take about a week to ship and then BLAM there they are. YMMV. Never hear of anyone months out unless it is AR500 or some place cutting and coating steel. If you are planning on a gun fight next week don't push your luck. Yeah ceramic and UHMWPE do not take 50 multihits or maybe none in the same hole... so buy two or three sets.

Walking around with 20 pounds vs a 10 pound carrier is a huge difference.

You should not have any ONE piece of equipment cause it is the best at longevity IMHO. Get more than one.

I'm fine with 7 sets, but maybe that's not enough. Who knows.

[NorCalRefuge]

I'm a big fan of the Banshee plate carrier.

Biggest thing I like about it is tons of integrated pockets and especially mag pouches around the cummerbund - this reduces the number of pouches you have to buy and hang off of it, which keeps you lighter and slimmer.

I am a steel guy, because unless you have spare plates and carriers on hand and plan on supply chains staying up, once ceramic is hit ONCE, the whole plate's integrity is compromised. So, I believe III+ is what you want. It will stop most .308 rounds.

I've seen most steel plates that are worth anything, take upwards of 100 5.56 hits and keep on ticking. Not that you WANT to run plates that have been shot even once, but again; steel maintains its integrity way, WAY better than Ceramic.

Maybe the best ceramic could stop ~6 rounds before it largely turns to dust?

And no you mouth breathers; I'm not envisioning getting shot 50 times in one gun fight; I'm thinking of the long-term; let's say we have full bore SHTF, riots and general civil unrest for 6 months; your ceramic plates will likely be useless at the end of 6 mo. (if not far sooner) vs. steel should keep on protecting you just fine.

Get AR650 or higher; do not go for AR500 - that is old tech & far eclipsed by the newer AR600+ / 1000 steels.

Ceramic is Level IV and good up to .30-06 AP, so it should stop most .308 rounds too.

The brands I like best are Spartan Armor, CATI Armor, SteelOps.

Good luck.

Sounds like a wonderful way to have your neck slit open from all that spalling. Good news, you won't die from being shot! But you'll bleed out soon after...

Also sounds like a wonderful way to develop some manly calves though... all that weight!

In all seriousness though - ceramic is fine. It can take multiple hits without issue - and if you're someplace where you're realistically taking 100 rounds to the chest, you shouldn't be there anyway... John Wick...

There's no reason ceramic plates wouldn't hold up through 6+ months of civil unrest... unless you're getting shot constantly. In which case, again... why are you there?

[NorCalRefuge]

Good info, I was not aware about the ceramic plates as far as how many rounds it can take before it becomes dust.

Unfortunately there's a lot of misinformation there. Ceramic plates can be any NIJ rating level, and most can stop multiple rounds before allowing localized penetration (as-is sniper tac driving bullets into the exact same spot). They do not "turn to dust", even after being shot.

There's a reason our LEO and MIL guys wear ceramic plates... and those guys actually have a real chance of taking multiple rounds during an operation. I can also assure you a SEAL puts his ceramic plates through a lot more abuse during 1 day in the field than you probably will during your entire lifetime.

[timberwoofers]

Unfortunately there's a lot of misinformation there. Ceramic plates can be any NIJ rating level, and most can stop multiple rounds before allowing localized penetration (as-is sniper tac driving bullets into the exact same spot). They do not "turn to dust", even after being shot.

There's a reason our LEO and MIL guys wear ceramic plates... and those guys actually have a real chance of taking multiple rounds during an operation. I can also assure you a SEAL puts his ceramic plates through a lot more abuse during 1 day in the field than you probably will during your entire lifetime.

Ok, do you have a recommendation?

[NorCalRefuge]

Ok, do you have a recommendation?

Hesco 4400. Level 4, covered ceramic plates. Good entry level plates that sacrifice weight and thickness vs. more expensive ones. Hesco is "the" brand - very high quality stuff.

Then get a carrier of your choice, Crye and more make excellent ones.

[crufflers]

Slickster $155
Turnover $30
Hesco Armor BI 4400 $350 (15 pounds)
----------------------------------------------
$535

That would work... but feel like you were wearing steel.

[timberwoofers]

Hesco 4400. Level 4, covered ceramic plates. Good entry level plates that sacrifice weight and thickness vs. more expensive ones. Hesco is "the" brand - very high quality stuff.

Then get a carrier of your choice, Crye and more make excellent ones.

This: https://sierratac.com/hesco-400-seri...4400-see-4401/

What's the difference between the medium and large cut?

Thanks

[timberwoofers]

Slickster $155
Turnover $30
Hesco Armor BI 4400 $350 (15 pounds)
----------------------------------------------
$535

That would work... but feel like you were wearing steel.

8lbs ea, seems like a lot vs 5-6lbs ea. But I know nothing that's why I'm asking.

[NorCalRefuge]

This: https://sierratac.com/hesco-400-seri...4400-see-4401/

What's the difference between the medium and large cut?

Thanks

You measure the length between one nipple to the other. That determines what size SAPI standard plate you need.

In addition to that, there are different "cuts", ie "shooter's cut", "swimmer's cut" etc. These have non-standard notches cut in the plate, which improve mobility but reduce protection. Shooter's cut is very popular, and allows a more comfortable arm position for shouldering rifles and forming a proper "triangle" with your arms for handguns. You probably should stay away from Swimmer's cut, you're not a Navy SEAL and the protection tradeoff starts to become pretty large.