BODY ARMOR: The Good, The Bad, and the Ugly

[JDay]

If you don't need level 4 there's also the M7.

http://dkxarmor.com/m7-series.php

https://cqbsouth.com/product/m7-series-nij-iii-plus/

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[vg247]

Then the DKX M12 is probably exactly what you are looking for. They'll likely be the next level 4 plates that I get as well since they are lightweight, buoyant and can take multiple hits without compromising the ARMOR. At around $500/plate for the 10x12 or $650 for the 11x14 they aren't cheap but the weight savings and durability are well worth it.

https://cqbsouth.com/product/m12-series-nij-iii-plus-nij-iv-plus/

[JDay]

It'll be a while before I can get these. Been buying a lot of tools lately and bought quite a few toys. I doubt they'd do a discount on anything less than a bulk order since they contact with different agencies.

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[eric90503]

SAPIs are outdated at this point, though they will still work, and you would want to get them X-Rayed prior to use. It also depends on what threat you are expecting. If you need black tip protection, a multi-hit Level IV like the Midwest FM4 is a good choice. If thinner plates that will stop all 5.56 and most 7.62x39 (but not .308) are more your speed, the Midwest STX plates are still extremely nice.

Backers should be worn with all rifle plates, regardless of whether they are considered "stand alone."

The FM4 looks promising. It shows the Large as 10.125" x 13.25", 0.09in @6.3lbs... On paper it shows it fares a little better in thickness and weight against the Dfndr LVL4 with the same specs as above.

Pardon my ignorance, but when you say backers does that mean a level III soft armor worn under the PC?

IF that was the case how would the FM STX fare with a level III soft armor?

[patriot_man]

Doc, do you have any recommendations for a Level II soft armor backer made in SAPI/ESAPI sizes? Quite easy to find IIIA from reputable manufacturers but II seems to be a bit challenging.

[d-r]

The FM4 looks promising. It shows the Large as 10.125" x 13.25", 0.09in @6.3lbs... On paper it shows it fares a little better in thickness and weight against the Dfndr LVL4 with the same specs as above.

Pardon my ignorance, but when you say backers does that mean a level III soft armor worn under the PC?

IF that was the case how would the FM STX fare with a level III soft armor?

Backers are level IIIA or level II soft armor, usually cut to match the plate profile they are worn with.

Backers will typically not alter or change a plate's rating (for example, the addition of soft armor behind the STX plates will not make them capable of stopping M80 ball).

The main purpose of backers is twofold- first, as a "safety net" to catch rounds that are "just barely" stopped by the plate. This can happen if several rounds impact close together on a level III plate, or if a round has more velocity than the plate was rated for.

The second is to provide additional blunt trauma protection.

Patriot Man, sending PM.

[Buffman]

If you're going to get these new lightweight plates I'd go with a different vendor that has the ones that will stop M855.

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I don't believe there's plate made totally out of PE, that will stop M855. Hence why DKX's armor is Ceramic Poly. Also their plates are re-branded TenCate plates

[Hyperion]

I don't believe there's plate made totally out of PE, that will stop M855. Hence why DKX's armor is Ceramic Poly. Also their plates are re-branded TenCate plates

Correct, there is no pure PE plate that would stop M855. We have a level III+ PE/Ceramic plate that weighs 4.2 lbs which can stop the M855. Are you open to do some video for us? All of our plates have already been tested by NTS Chesapeake.

[Buffman]

Correct, there is no pure PE plate that would stop M855. We have a level III+ PE/Ceramic plate that weighs 4.2 lbs which can stop the M855. Are you open to do some video for us? All of our plates have already been tested by NTS Chesapeake.

I'm more than open to do testing to help further educate end users about performance aspects of armor

[DrjonesUSA]

I've been wanting to buy armor for quite some time, and now I definitely want to get a plate for my wife's backpack.

I want as much protection as possible, which leads me to Level IV, but can most Level IV plates sustain multiple hits from non-AP rounds?

I believe the most realistic threats are from standard / non-AP rounds; am I best off with ceramic Level IV, or steel III or IIIa or whatever it is?

Thanks!

[d-r]

I've been wanting to buy armor for quite some time, and now I definitely want to get a plate for my wife's backpack.

I want as much protection as possible, which leads me to Level IV, but can most Level IV plates sustain multiple hits from non-AP rounds?

I believe the most realistic threats are from standard / non-AP rounds; am I best off with ceramic Level IV, or steel III or IIIa or whatever it is?

Thanks!

Hi Doc,

Your question is a good one, and highlights the counter-intuitive nature of the NIJ rating system. For the hard armor ratings, it is not a direct-scaling of capability as it is for soft armor. Level IV is rated for a single round of M2 AP, while III is rated for 6 rounds of M80 ball in a 6" circle. So unless your wife needs specific protection against AP rifle rounds, III is the way to go.

IIIA is pistol-rated, and will not stop rifle rounds.

My recommendation is to go to my site and read all the Good, Bad, Ugly posts. They were written to provide an in-depth overview of all aspects of modern body armor.

That said, for use in a backpack, steel would probably be be the best bet, as it will be insensitive to rough handling.

Please let me know if you have any further questions.

[Buffman]

Hi Doc,

Your question is a good one, and highlights the counter-intuitive nature of the NIJ rating system. For the hard armor ratings, it is not a direct-scaling of capability as it is for soft armor. Level IV is rated for a single round of M2 AP, while III is rated for 6 rounds of M80 ball in a 6" circle. So unless your wife needs specific protection against AP rifle rounds, III is the way to go.

IIIA is pistol-rated, and will not stop rifle rounds.

My recommendation is to go to my site and read all the Good, Bad, Ugly posts. They were written to provide an in-depth overview of all aspects of modern body armor.

That said, for use in a backpack, steel would probably be be the best bet, as it will be insensitive to rough handling.

Please let me know if you have any further questions.

Depends on the IIIA. There are some manufacturers who are making hard PE IIIA (labeling them as IIIA+) plates that will indeed stop M193. But then we're left with M855 concern.

[DrjonesUSA]

Hi Doc,

Your question is a good one, and highlights the counter-intuitive nature of the NIJ rating system. For the hard armor ratings, it is not a direct-scaling of capability as it is for soft armor. Level IV is rated for a single round of M2 AP, while III is rated for 6 rounds of M80 ball in a 6" circle. So unless your wife needs specific protection against AP rifle rounds, III is the way to go.

IIIA is pistol-rated, and will not stop rifle rounds.

My recommendation is to go to my site and read all the Good, Bad, Ugly posts. They were written to provide an in-depth overview of all aspects of modern body armor.

That said, for use in a backpack, steel would probably be be the best bet, as it will be insensitive to rough handling.

Please let me know if you have any further questions.

[97F1504RAD]

The link to his site is in his Sig line.

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[Doheny]

Anyone have experience with this company or their product: https://safelifedefense.com