Can we Prevent 2nd Civil War ?

[Turk]

Just one mans opinion , but an interesting read.

http://jpfo.org/kirby/kirby-2nd-civil-war.htm

[ginman]

Decent read, I don't think the issues he talks about would lead to a civil war though, at least not anytime remotely soon. Those issues would take a long time to boil over I think. If the government was forced to to fully enforce immigration laws then they would, maybe if acts of violence are towards illegals were occuring too often. For the most part, americans work right next to illegals on a daily basis and don't ever say a word about it. I do believe that the risk is high for America to decend into a chaotic mess of some sort. There are many different threats to life as we know it, sooner or later a country crippling crisis will occur.

[Vacaville]

I think the only thing that will trigger civil war is total economic collapse and collapse of the government - which at the rate we're going may end up happening in the next couple of years.

[Ripon83]

The author says abortion or second amendment issues. Sorry I can't see either of those leading to a war. Abortion as an issue politically is almost dead. Those who oppose it have been maligned by the main stream media and will never seriously make it illegal. The same is almost true for the second amendment; while anti gunners will regulate they will never ban or attempt to confiscate our weapons. Being anti gun is almost equated as being anti American even in main stream media eyes (regulation not withstanding).

Immigration though is tougher. I don't see it as nearly as big a threat as our dollar hyper inflating. That would be a catalyst to a "Patriot" book scenerio that was most ugly if you read the book "Patriots"

[Taidaisher]

I think the only thing that will trigger civil war is total economic collapse and collapse of the government - which at the rate we're going may end up happening in the next couple of years.

QFT

If you are looking for an interesting read, try

http://www.stansberryresearch.com/pro/1103PSIEOAVD/6PSIM506/PR

[thrasherfox]

QFT

If you are looking for an interesting read, try

http://www.stansberryresearch.com/pr...VD/6PSIM506/PR

You know, I hate pages that when you click on the X a stupid pop up springs to life and reads "WAIT!! ARE YOU SURE YOU REALLY WANT TO NAVIGATE AWAY FROM THIS PAGE!!"

No, I fricken clicked the X because I enjoy watching pop ups!!!

[dustoff31]

The author says abortion or second amendment issues. Sorry I can't see either of those leading to a war.

It would probably be like last time. The cause of a Civil War II would be the right to self determination and/or serious issues that the federal government pushes or refuses to address. The stated reason for a Civil War may cited as a single issue. Last time, it was slavery.

I found the second to the last paragraph of the article in the OP to quite on point. I'm still not convinced that there are enough who are willing to put their money where their mouth is, both literally and figuratively.

[beaster]

QFT

If you are looking for an interesting read, try

http://www.stansberryresearch.com/pr...VD/6PSIM506/PR

Is what he says about alternate currency in the Midwest and foreign currencies being accepted around the country true? I knew we were in trouble, just wasn't aware of how deep the reality is. Crap!

[Yugo]

Is what he says about alternate currency in the Midwest and foreign currencies being accepted around the country true? I knew we were in trouble, just wasn't aware of how deep the reality is. Crap!

Cause you should do your own research, never wait on the TV & you will not react this way.

[Ripon83]

If people are using their own form of money in other places I have not seen that here in CA. Its been reported, but lets face it; there are 300 million people in the US and if 1/10th of 1% are doing something like this it means 300,000 people - and that is a lot of people but its still just 1/10th of 1%.

As an example; I've sold silver bullion coins here a couple of times. But I've had no luck when an expensive highly desirable gun comes into the market place offering them silver in exchange for it.....we're not at the point where a junk coin silver is going to get you anything other then face value at a store front in CA.....not even close.

There's a thread about the "end of the world as we know it" this summer here....well it looks like killing OBL might have bought us another year of extreme over spending at the federal level....hell maybe two or three years. Silvers down 25 to 30% from its high already!

[cruising7388]

The stated reason for a Civil War may cited as a single issue. Last time, it was slavery.

Well the South and the Federal Government had different stated reasons. For the south, it was the protection of the right to own slaves the loss of which threatened to destroy southern economies. For the government the issue was secession. Lincoln did even address the emancipation of slaves until the war was well under way.

[john.t.singh]

Generally a civil war is when one section of the country ideals are so foreign from another part that a split occurs

All the points the author brings up affects almost all of us homogeneously. Their is no state with zero abortions or zero gun owners and we are all affected by illegal immigrants.

[mcsoupman]

The civil war was not about slaves. Slavery was the medium by which the debate took place (wars are not fought because of guns, guns are used to fight wars . . .) It was about the disagreement of whether states have the right to make their own judgments or can the federal gov't enforce common laws on everyone. From the South's perspective it was the "War of Northern Aggression." In this case it was about the right of States to allow slavery or not. Enough history lessons. . .

Personally I feel that unless we have political leaders willing to push for any form of separatist movement, there will not be civil war. No one with any form of credibility is willing to take that extreme of a stance yet. Basically saying all forms of governmental due process have failed moral standards and there is no other option but to revolt. However this could be speed by a form of societal breakdown (natural disaster, economic collapse). Should the government cross some vital lines of authority egregious enough to alienate a big enough segment of society, it theoretically could happen. Our representative form of Gov't is supposed to have enough checks and balances to minimize this or even prevent it. Abortion is "not big enough" in the current form, basically it is optional, not mandated. However what if the Federal Gov't pulled a Chinese style moratorium on births where abortion was required after say your first 2 children. It would then be "mandating" what many would see as morally reprehensible. Revolt would ensue.

There have always been fringe elements within our government on both sides, but as a whole it "represents" the mass and therefore "unlikely" to make such grossly skewed decisions.

I think the illegal alien discussion would be more likely to cause us to invade Mexico than cause civil war. An invasion could be a big issue if the argument is lost as to whether it was justified.

[KPSFO]

In 1861 the population of the United States was 31.5 million - by the end of the war, somewhere in the range of 3.25 to 4 million people served in one or the other of the belligerent camps. About one in ten who served were injured. Roughly 620,000 lost their lives in battle or to disease. Whole swaths of the country were ruined.

Today we have a population of about 310 million. Imagine what living in a war-torn United States with similar percentages of men under arms -possibly more, since it is likely women would be accepted as fully-vested combatants. We'd have, at a minimum, 30 MILLION people under arms, savaging each other with weapons whose range and lethality would make the bloodbath of the first civil war look like flag football in comparison. Even if it stayed conventional (and it might not), you'd have a slow-burn apocalypse: anyone could hit anyone anywhere, food and water shortages in some places, power outages, depleted uranium sprinkled across the countryside . . . non-combatants might or might not be safe regardless of where they lived.

So, if we managed to kill 620,000 of our compatriots 150 years ago (about 2 percent of the total population), figure we'd be good for about ten times that now. Six million. Maybe less wounded and more KIA. You'd definitely lose people you knew. Recovering from it would take decades, since we no longer have an expanding frontier full of untapped resources to exploit. We're stuck within our own borders unless we go Viking on everyone else. America would never be the same place again. We'd have been weak and inwardly turned, and everyone we normallykeep in check would go hog wild out while we were distracted. More countries would go nuke, either out of ambition or out of fear.

The aftermath would suck. Nothing would really be decided. The losing side would go underground, which would either mean the formation of a true police state in response (and don't kid yourself into thinking it would be any different if conservatives won - they probably would), or a festering wound that would bleed and weaken the nation again, later.

And none of this factors in the nastiness of some recent political developments - mere bluster and economics motivated the South to take the plunge, not any real hatred of Northerners. That is not the case with many of the disputes that take place along political fault lines now. There is real fear and fury at work. I also see a calculated effort to dehumanize progressives and liberals - illegals too - that looks to me a little like what went on all over Europe between the wars. Both the communists and the fascists did it. It made the wet work that came later much easier to get people to sign on for.

We have to prevent another Civil War. We need to work hard to work out our differences, think about the many things we take for granted. We need to remember how strong we are as a nation now - and how terrible it would be to lose that strength.

Avoiding a bloodbath is cheaper, and there's less annoying crying. Plus I really like my city and it's about 90% wood, and I know a lot of conservatives who've got matches and motivation to spare when it comes to San Francisco . . .

[SKSer]

The country is split, but down to the individual level, the only thing i could see leading to a civil war would be a state like Arizona wanting to seceed and then other states joining in. But the states would have to border one another.

If you think about it, the first civil war, and the government wanting to interfere with Arizona's immigration laws are very similar.