Firearms in Forests and Parks

[Shasta Frog]

That is just too much b.s. to even worry about. You are legal doing "this" not legal doing "that"... Only if you are at your campsite bla bla bla. What a joke. Glad I don't worry about that crap.

[Sehoner]

Geez, and all I wanted to know was if it was legal to run around in the woods with a firearm strapped to my leg.

Thanks MC, for all the work.

[moosicmang]

Anytime I'm in the woods with a gun, I'm hunting.

'Sir i was hunting, but the deer just didn't feel like jumping in front of my scope'

Sounds like as long as you have a gun in the woods, its probably best to carry a hunting license

[MasterYong]

Quick question here:

It doesn't look like MudCamper is online otherwise I'd just PM. In lieu of that, can anyone tell me if the information in Post #1 is still 100% accurate as of today?

I'm leaving to go camping tomorrow in Shasta-Trinity National Forest. In the past I've always LOC when I'm there, from the moment I'm out of my vehicle (which is parked in a campsite) to when I go to bed, then it's back on my hip the next day (handgun). All river access and hiking from my spot doesn't require that I cross any roads to get there and I'm on National Forest land the entire time. I don't typically discharge while I'm there, I carry for protection from some of the hill people/crazies we get out there, not so I can plink whenever I want.

There have never been restrictions posted at the campground before (very remote campground, but it still has signage), and I'll be sure to look this time.

Knowing all these details (I think I've included everything) I'm still good to go when it comes to LOC in National Forest / Unincorporated areas, yes? AB144 and any legislation since hasn't killed that yet?

Sorry for what may seem like a nooby question. I've been away for too long, and a LOT seems to have happened since I stopped lurking and/or posting regularly.

[MudCamper]

In lieu of that, can anyone tell me if the information in Post #1 is still 100% accurate as of today?

Answering way too late, but yes, I keep the first two posts up-to-date.

[DirtTime]

I'm new here, but I've been carrying LOC in NP & NF for years, apparently illegally some of the time. I intend to remedy that.

It seems a lot of people are hung up on the hunting, and while that is one way to get the exemption, I think fishing is a far easier route to get around the law for those who are using it just for the ability to carry. My reasons for this belief:

1. No hunters safety course required.
2. You can buy 1 day or 2 day fishing licences for $14 or $22 respectively, or a 1 year for $45.
3. You can build a "pocket fishing kit" for next to nothing, and keep it in your truck, your pack, or even in your actual pocket. All you technically need is a hook and some line to be fishing, a traditional pole is not required.
4. For all intents and purposes, 5 mins standing by a creek with a bare hook in the water IS fishing, there is no specified legal reason why that couldn't justify a 10 day "expedition".
5. Fishing allows you to UCC, which will mostly keep you off the radar of any LEO that you might bump into, and you only have to tell them you are carrying if you are specifically asked, after which you just let them know you are headed to the creek to do some more fishin'.

I see a lot less issues for someone who might be stopped to be on a fishing trip, as opposed to a hunting trip, but that's just my 2 cents. Does this make sense to anyone else?

One other thought I had while reading earlier, does the law specify that you have to be LEGALLY hunting or fishing to be exempt? If not, I'd take a hunting/fishing w/o a licence, or just about any other DFW citation way before I'd want a firearms violation that might end up a felony. Wouldn't you?

[DirtTime]

My first post was about finding a California approved way to exercise my Constitutionally protected right to bear arms. Next time I join a gun forum I'll be sure to post some pictures of shiny guns and other really important things before I stray into the frivolity of Liberty and Personal Freedom.

[Shasta Frog]

You do realize that if the gun is concealed no one will know. And if you need to use it then it would be a life or death situation and you will be glad you had it.

[MudCamper]

Your first post is about getting around the law?

Our purpose in this thread is to figure out how to obey the laws (as unjust as they may be) while still carrying guns.

Using the fishing license exemption is not "getting around the law". It is making sure that you are within the law.

I see a lot less issues for someone who might be stopped to be on a fishing trip, as opposed to a hunting trip, but that's just my 2 cents. Does this make sense to anyone else?

Well you need to have your fishing gear with you...

One other thought I had while reading earlier, does the law specify that you have to be LEGALLY hunting or fishing to be exempt? If not, I'd take a hunting/fishing w/o a licence, or just about any other DFW citation way before I'd want a firearms violation that might end up a felony. Wouldn't you?

Hunting or fishing, or traveling to or from your hunting or fishing expedition, although it must be unloaded for the latter.

[MudCamper]

The term "campsite" is pretty important for this topic, and I've never found a legal definition for it, until now. Here are a couple:

From a US District Court case:

http://definitions.uslegal.com/c/campsite/

Campsite is defined as "any place where any bedding, sleeping bag, or other sleeping matter, or any stove or fire is placed, established, or maintained, whether or not such place incorporates the use of any tent, lean-to, shack, or any other structure." Anderson v. City of Portland, 2009 U.S. Dist. LEXIS 67519 (D. Or. July 30, 2009)


And an Alaska National Park definition for "temporary campsite":

http://definitions.uslegal.com/t/temporary-campsite/

[Hunterfromthenorth]

California needs more laws.

[eatcow]

Hey MudCamper great info, super helpful.

My main question is as far as carrying a shotgun in National Parks in CA goes, wouldn't H.R.627 s 512 (b)(2) make it illegal to carry the gun in CA Nat' Parks at all because its illegal to carry it completely in state parks under State CCR Title 14, Div 3, Chap 1, s 4313.

I feel like I don't have this right based on what everyone else has said but wanted to make sure.

And given my above argument doesn't apply, could I UOC a shotgun in Yosemite (CA natl park) if I was hiking and not yet at my campsite? If not how would I do it, I am very confused, would I have to lock/conceal/unload it while hiking to my campsite and then once there could UOC it?

Thanks!

[Shasta Frog]

My question is why do some lose sleep over this crap? You can interpret the laws to death and still not have it right. Just do what you feel you need to do and keep calm and carry on.

[TacticalPlinker]

My question is why do some lose sleep over this crap? You can interpret the laws to death and still not have it right. Just do what you feel you need to do and keep calm and carry on.

I think it's because the laws are so confusing, vague, cryptic and convoluted... It's difficult for lawyers, law enforcement and government officials (let alone civilians) to know what's legal and what's illegal.

Despite our opinion of the laws, most of us still want to comply to avoid arrest, heavy fines, firearm confiscation and/or jail time, to say the least (or at least I do).

[Shasta Frog]

I think it's because the laws are so confusing, vague, cryptic and convoluted... It's difficult for lawyers, law enforcement and government officials (let alone civilians) to know what's legal and what's illegal.

Despite our opinion of the laws, most of us still want to comply to avoid arrest, heavy fines, firearm confiscation and/or jail time, to say the least (or at least I do).

Don't get me wrong, I do my best to comply too but with all the gray areas regarding gun laws I just do my best to do what I think is right When I am carrying.

I have a ccw so maybe its easier for me to think that way but all these nitpicky laws are just mind boggling and there is more important things to worry about. In My Opinion.

Common sense to begin with will keep most of us out of trouble.